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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 95
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OP
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Hi,
I just spent the past 11 hours and got nowhere! I'm an experienced computer user, but I'm finding BIAB totally unintuitive. I can see it can do a lot, but I can't even get past the first hurdle. I purchased the megapack, because my supplier said in their write-up that it included the tutorial pak, which it doesn't, so I can't even learn. The online tutorials won't download into Windows Media player, nor download as zip files - probably due to my firewall. So the forum is my only hope.
All I want to do is to create the different sections of my song. Two verses, a bridge, another verse, and a four bar ending. But nothing I can do gets the repeats in the right place - I end up with repeat symbols in odd places, and I can't see any way of adding different sections into the chords window to get them to run in the right order.
Can anyone please walk me through this - step by step - with the structure mentioned above as the example. Please specify what settings I should change and how I make the necessary adjustments. I go into hospital in three days and desperately need to work out how to do this. I can handle all the complex styling etc., it's just the simple structural setup I can't achieve.
Thanks in advance.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,058
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,058 |
Since I'm not sure what you have learned about BIAB, I don;t know if this will help but try this. First don't worry about a complete song.
The setup page for BIAB default is set for 32 bars 3 repeats, this is just to the right of the style name.
Start by putting in the total # of bars of the song, maybe 100 bars where the 32 is, then set the repeats to 1 where the 3 is.
Enter in the chords straight thru as if it's 1 long verse/chorus. Don't think about repeats, just place them in, where they come in in the song, each time you want those chords.
Hit play and those chords will play in the style that's in the style window.
Right click in the style window and several options will present themselves, one of which will be "browse styles" this will bring up the entire list of styles you have.
You might try starting with fewer chords, say a verse and try out styles to see what they sound like.
From your post I understand the frustration and what I have suggested , you may have already done.
Since you have been around computers awhile, I'm sure you understand the idea of a small test program to learn the more advanced features.
That's how I learned the small amt I have gained and much more from the forum members
Wyndham
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
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Maybe this will get you started...
1. Pick a key
2. Pick a tempo
3. Pick a style
4. Enter the chords for the entire chorus (verses, bridge, and verse) in a linear format. Don't worry about the repeats - you can do that later. Lots of shortcuts to copy stuff but I won't do that here. Place part markers where you want - usually at the start of the verse and bridge.
5. After the chorus is done, tell BIAB where the end of chorus is by pressing on end of chorus button. The default on mine says 32 (under the Loop and Fake checkboxes).
6. Choose # of choruses (next to end of chorus button). Mine defaults to 3.
7. Enter in your ending bar chords
8. Tell BIAB that a Tag exists and specify which bars. Press the S button for song settings. You'll see the Tag settings. You'll also want to uncheck Generate 2 bar ending.
This should get what you want. You can do repeats and stuff as you get more comfortable.
Rachael
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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The terminology about "chorus" gets most at first.
"Verse" and "Chorus" terminology refers to lyrics.
Song terminology, the Chorus is one iteration of Verse plus the following Chorus.
Both are called the Chorus.
Then repeat that as many times as necessary to get the job done. Use the second box with numbers in it that appears to the right of the songtitle window. Default is 32 bars, simply click there and click where you want the end of your chorus (that combination of one "verse plus chorus") and that part's done.
For the 4 bar ending, you would likely invoke a TAG ending of two bars using the Song Settings dialog (Rightclick at the bar and choose Song Settings). Choose two bars only because the default in BIAB is a two bar ending anyway, the two bar TAG plus two bar ending should make up a 4 bar ending for you.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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Many thanks to you both: Rachael and Wyndham.
I think you're right - perhaps I'm looking at it in too perfectionist a way at the start!
It never crossed my mind to create everything as one complete linear format. I assumed the program would let you define the sections and enter them as distinct sections, adding them to the chords display as you went.
Oddly enough I have done most of the rest that you suggest: Key, tempo, style, changed to 8 bars and 2 repeats (the first two verses of my song), allocating the end of chorus etc.
1. But I did have a problem with "uncheck Generate 2 bar ending", because every time I unchecked it - no matter whether I saved the settings, simply continued with the song, closed the program and reopened it, the check was always back there in the box, and I can see nothing in the preferences to turn this off by default. The other problem was that I wanted a four bar ending, but every time I changed it to four, it added four bars to the existing two bar ending, rather than replacing it whether or not I checked or unchecked generate additional bars, and created an automatic repeat after a first ending and adding space for a second ending as well. Can anyone advise how to cancel this completely?
2. Rachael, you say: "Place part markers where you want - usually at the start of the verse and bridge" - how do you do this? And how do you "Tell BIAB that a Tag exists"?
3. Finally, if I do enter everything in one linear sequence including all the repeats, how do I get rid of the extra bits when I've told BIAB how to fit them together using tags?
4. As I commented in my earlier post my song is simply two verses, a bridge, another verse, and a four bar ending. If I set the "chorus" to repeat (I do wish BIAB wouldn't use the jazz phraseology!), then how do I get it to go to the bridge and then back to the true chorus?
If anyone can help me further I'll check in again in the AM (I'm GMT and just about to go to retire gracefully!) to see where to go next.
I really can't see how anyone can describe this software as easy! Perhaps it is once you get into it, but it's rather like learning a new language compared to to the intuitiveness of the high end graphics and web-design software I'm used to using.
Thanks again to you both for being so supportive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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Thanks Mac - your post appeared whilst I was composing my other reply.
The terminology is confusing, but thanks for the explanation. You may have seen my reply by now, which explains I did have problems with the auto ending and that because my song is two verses, a bridge, another verse, and a four bar ending, I can't simply repeat verse+chorus, as there are only verses and a bridge.
Any further comments would be welcome.
Thanks again.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I really can't see how anyone can describe this software as easy!
The software is easy, but not at first, because you have to understand how it works and how you work it. It's a niche product, unlike any other piece of software. So, you just have to learn some of the basics first. Read the "getting started" sections of the user manual, use the help facility, and try to figure out why your firewall doesn't let you download the video tutorials. Once you do that, you'll find it's a piece of cake.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Ditto to what Wyndham said. To start, K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid). Not that you're stupid, but think of it like beginning to learn music. We all started with simple stuff, remember? Get a lead sheet from someone or a fake book for a one page tune with no 1st-2nd endings or codas. This is what i did. I entered the chords from the lead sheet first and then added a midi melody (you don't have to do this at first or ever actually). After I get the chords in, I go to the styles and spend a very long time finally finding one that I like for the particular song--I'm picky. Then you hit play and see if you like what you hear. Don't like some of the chords? Change 'em. Don't like the style? Change it. Don't want the 2-bar ending? Right click, select song settings, and uncheck the box in the popup window. I could go on, but you aren't going to learn BIAB via questions on this forum. You just have to jump in and start experimenting. As to the videos, I have anti-virus and spy sweeper and a firewall. They prompt me before running the videos. I shut off my firewall and antivirus software to load the programs. There are lots of videos and a lot of them are not on the video disks that come with the disk paks. I downloaded some. Most will run but some will not because I don't have some required codec. That's okay though since you can run them from the pg music website. Good luck!
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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*BIAB comes with Demo songs. You can even load a demo song for a particular style from the Stylepicker window with the button at the top.
Examining a song while it plays can teach a lot in a hurry.
Using the Jukebox feature on an entire demo folder is a good thing to try, watch BIAB play and note the various indications in the Chord Grid as BIAB demo songs implement the feature.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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- Part markers: Left click on the bar number and it'll change. Blue markers are more subtle and green are 'busier' accompaniment. Some styles have more part marker options than others.
- Tag exists: In song settings (S button next to Memo button or Right click mouse), it is a check box. Be warned that getting a nice sounding ending without using the built-in 'Generate 2 bar ending' can be tricky. Plenty of suggestions in forum and FAQs. For simplicity, you should try to use the auto 2 bar endings.
- 1st/2nd Endings, repeats, etc: I use these solely for the convenience of printouts. I have two copies of each song. One is the master copy for printouts with repeats, etc. The other is for on-stage performance with all of that stuff removed. This gives me a nice clean display to follow if needed.
- Linear format: Even with endings, repeats, etc., BIAB still plays in a linear manner. So, lay out your chorus and add 1st/2nd endings, etc later if desired. In fact, the linear form must be there in order to implement these. You'll learn there are 'shortcuts' to do this but I won't describe them at this time. After over a year and 250 songs, I don't bother with the shortcuts. If you use Realband, everything is linear; even the songs you import from BIAB.
- Chorus: BIAB does use Chorus as everything in the middle of the Intro and Tag/Ending. Think of it as the entire AABA part of the song surrounded by the Intro and Ending. Something to keep in mind is be default, BIAB varies the middle chorus style. Essentially it plays the entire 2nd chorus using the 'B' substyle 'jazzing up' the accompaniment by making them 'busier'.
It's up to you how you want to handle it. If you want total control over how your entire song sounds, make the entire song linear - including the number of choruses. Most of my 3 chorus songs I leave at 1 chorus repeating 3 times. The 1st/3rd chorus will be identical and the middle chorus 'busier'.
Also, be sure to enable your RealDrums and RealTracks.
Rachael
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 507
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Hello DigiH, Quote:
1. But I did have a problem with "uncheck Generate 2 bar ending", because every time I unchecked it - no matter whether I saved the settings, simply continued with the song, closed the program and reopened it, the check was always back there in the box, and I can see nothing in the preferences to turn this off by default.
The thing to remember is that feature is a song setting. Yes, it's enabled by default, but if you disable it and save the song, then it should remain disabled when you reload the song. Post back if that's not working for you. Quote:
The other problem was that I wanted a four bar ending, but every time I changed it to four, it added four bars to the existing two bar ending, rather than replacing it whether or not I checked or unchecked generate additional bars, and created an automatic repeat after a first ending and adding space for a second ending as well. Can anyone advise how to cancel this completely?
By "changed it to four" you mean you've invoked a tag ending? If you're using a tag to create an ending, then you probably should disable the "generate 2 bar ending." Others may know this better than I, but I don't think the program has the kind of logic you're intuiting. It regards the tag function and the "generate ending" function as two independent features. As for the automatic repeats, it probably raised the chorus number from 1 to 2, because it "knows" there's no need for a tag if there's only one chorus. So I think you can accomplish what you want by invoking neither the "generate ending" nor the tag.Quote:
2. Rachael, you say: "Place part markers where you want - usually at the start of the verse and bridge" - how do you do this? And how do you "Tell BIAB that a Tag exists"?
I'm not Rachael, but left click on any bar number to insert a part marker. As for tag, that's also a feature of the song. If you create one and save the song, it will persist when the song is loaded again.Quote:
I really can't see how anyone can describe this software as easy! Perhaps it is once you get into it, but it's rather like learning a new language compared to to the intuitiveness of the high end graphics and web-design software I'm used to using.
I think many users would agree that the program is daunting and unintuitive to the newcomer. Interface issues are of continuing concern to many users. But consider this: at its core BB is an expert system. It's rule based. That makes it rather unique in the auto-accompaniment realm. I think you'll find the functionality is worth the learning curve. There's a bunch of good advice in this thread. The gist of much of it is: start simple and study existing songs. It'll get easier, don't worry.
Have fun and keep posting. -Ron
EDIT - Overlapped Rachael. She says it better than I. 
Last edited by rkl122; 02/20/09 10:57 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Wow a "BIAB for Dummies" at last! A great start anyway. I´ll be giving it another try using these tips, because until now the only thing I have managed to get right is installing the updates. 
Chris
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Wow a "BIAB for Dummies" at last! A great start anyway.
I´ll be giving it another try using these tips, because until now the only thing I have managed to get right is installing the updates.
There's a video called "Band In A Box For Bozo's". It may be available for download on this website. I probably need to watch it again.
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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Thanks for everyone's help!
Rather than multiply the replies, I'm replying to my own post in the hope that you are all listening for any updates, or will look back later.
I'm thrilled to say that with the help of the advice you've all given, I've managed to complete my first song. I've input the chords in a linear fashion as suggested - which does make it easier. But I guess if I need to produce sheet music later, I'll have to do as someone suggested and produce a second version. I kept the auto-ending after all in the end. I'll explore that again sometime later.
The styles were good, but as I was trying them out, I began to notice how many of them have common features - either they're based on others of have adopted similar piano parts or sequences. Is there some way of viewing the settings for the instruments used in each style?
I managed to implement part markers, plus a guitar solo on in intervening verse. I did have problems with the soloist though, because the dialog is different for transposition to the one shown in the user guide (although I bought BIAB2009, I got a BIAB 2008.5 user guide with a supplement for additional features on 2009). Soloist transposition is now handled in semitones rather than keys, and although this is a little more flexible, you have to be able to do maths to get the right transposition. I think I would have preferred it if there was a choice.
The choice of soloist instruments seems rather poor, in that many of them are just midi instruments and they sound very artificial. I looked at church bells, vibes and violin, but eventually gave up and settled on acoustic guitar. Am I right in thinking that this will have invoked the real guitar? It sounds realistic. Somebody suggested I check to ensure that realtracks and realdrums are enabled. How and where do I do this please?
I has some major problems outputting the song to wav, as the setup kept crashing and telling me afterwards that all my drum settings had been lost. I'm not sure quite why this was, because I did it about the fifth time and it worked fine, and my drums were fine afterwards.
Next step is to try creating a track for one of my own songs. That will be interesting! Thanks to everyone for help and advice.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I'm pleased things are starting to work for you. Your learning curve will become less steep the more you work with the program.
You raised several issues in this post, and I'll deal with this one:
Somebody suggested I check to ensure that realtracks and realdrums are enabled. How and where do I do this please?
Right-click on a radio button for an instrument (third row down), for example, guitar. You will see the option, Add/Remove Real Tracks. From that, you may choose from the real tracks that you have purchased. Since using Real Tracks requires time to regenerate the song each time you press Play or make a change in the chords or song structure, you normally want to make sure the song is 'done' before substituting the Real Track instrument for a MIDI one. You can add a Real Track on any of the instrument tracks (not drums; that's for Real Drums), and it does not have to be related to the instrument name. For example, you could put a trumpet on the guitar track. When a track uses a Real Track instrument, the name of the track will turn Green.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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