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OK, so what's your workflow for doing original music and BIAB ?
Do you write the tune on an instrument, then plug in the chords and do arrangement ?
Do you use the Melodist to have BIAB magically generate a progression and melody... then tweak to taste ?
Curious about your process. Do tell ?
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I write the tune and do the arrangement on the guitar, then plug in the chords on BIAB and try to find a suitable style.
I try not to let BIAB influence the "feel" of the song, ... instead I try to get BIAB to conform to the musical idea in my head.
Just my way of approaching it. Obviously only one of many ways.
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Here are a couple of approaches that I use.
1.) I start off as Bob suggests above (write on guitar and just type in the chords) -- but I always use the "Intro" feature of BIAB to create a new 4 to 8 bar intro. I don't always use their suggestions, but it often times picks chords that I never would have thought of (and they sound good) and I then I just might use their choice as an intro (with some tweaking) and as interludes inside the piece. So, I often let BIAB contribute to the composition in this and other ways.
2.) Lots of times, I will have just the lyrics and I go looking for a style and demo that seems to fit. If I find one (and this takes awhile), I will often use a lot of what BIAB gives me -- again making BIAB a partner in the composition process.
I often times don't have a fixed sound that I hear in my head when writing, so I am open to going through some doors that BIAB might open for me.
Kevin
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Remember this a good song can often work with different styles and arrangements.
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I usually write a song using the guitar or piano.
Working out the lyrics and chords.
Once I get the verses and chorus written I'll input the chords into BIAbusing the computer keyboard.
I try and find a midi style that reflects the mood of my song and use that as my style for putting in the chords and setting up the structure of the song.
I then record the vocals still using the midi style.
Once that's done I start looking for a RT style that fits the song or just start replacing midi parts with Realtracks.
The reason I start with a midi style first is Real Styles still don't generate fast enough for constantly regenerating the song over and over again till I get the chords and structure the way I want.
After I come up with the right RT arrangement I then export to Sonar and work on the vocals and add solos where needed.
I also do some mixing then convert to mp3 and that's pretty much it.
I've never tried the melody maker to compose music yet.
I'll have to give that a whirl sometime.
Tim
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Mitch, I approach songwriting in a few different ways. Whatever approach, though, I use BIAB pretty much entirely for the song development process. Sometimes, very rarely, I work on a keyboard. The work flow that I mostly use is as follows. - Load in a PG Music demo song or use chords from an existing song. This is the usual starting place for my chord progression. Often the chord progression ends up quite different from what it starts out as but I find it easier to begin with something.
- Find a style I like.
- Continually play the chord progression with the added style. Eventually snippets of lyrics pop into my mind. The lyrics at this stage are rhythmical only and have no melody.
- Develop the lyrics from a rhythmical perspective.
- When a verse and chorus of lyrics have grown, I then use Notation Editor to begin shaping a melody. First, I enter the notes rhythmically using chord tones ('cause the lyrics are only rhythmical at this point). Then I pull the notes up and down the stave to get a melody that I like.
- As the melody grows, the lyrics change, the chord progression gets modified, and eventually a song evolves.
- I then ship the song to Realband and dress it up a bit with other tracks.
- Lastly I move it to Reaper, record vocals and mix it.
This works for me. Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Quote:
Mitch,
I approach songwriting in a few different ways. Whatever approach, though, I use BIAB pretty much entirely for the song development process. Sometimes, very rarely, I work on a keyboard. The work flow that I mostly use is as follows.
[LIST]Load in a PG Music demo song or use chords from an existing song. This is the usual starting place for my chord progression. Often the chord progression ends up quite different from what it starts out as but I find it easier to begin with something.
Find a style I like.
Continually play the chord progression with the added style. Eventually snippets of lyrics pop into my mind. The lyrics at this stage are rhythmical only and have no melody.
When a verse and chorus of lyrics have grown, I then use Notation Editor to begin shaping a melody. First, I enter the notes rhythmically using chord tones ('cause the lyrics are only rhythmical at this point). Then I pull the notes up and down the stave to get a melody that I like.
As the melody grows, the lyrics change, the chord progression gets modified, and eventually a song evolves.
Noel,
I like your method of composing the melody.
If I still had sight I think that's probably the way I'd approach writing the melody too.
I did a lot of writing music via music notation in college while taking some music theory courses.
Of course back then we did that by hand.
Unfortunately no BIAB back then. 
Also the only way you could hear what you wrote was to find other students who were willing to play your stuff.
Thank god for BIAb. Lol.
Tim
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Mitch, Like Bob, I also start composing on guitar or banjo........then write the chord sequence in BIAB......changing as I go along. I tend to stick to styles that I know will work for me!  I then write the melody in BIAB. Again I'll edit quite a bit. When I'm happy with things, I "click & drag" into Sonar 8.5....where I'll work on it again. If it's an instrumental for Banjo...or Guitar, I'll copy the melody into Sibelius, where I can make corrections more easily......especially where "syncopation" is involved.....or lots of "triplets"! I know that I could probably do everything in BIAB..........but I find things easier this way....and it gives me more time to practise!  Joe G.
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My approach to is similar to Tim's. The idea for a song can come from any number of stimuli,a popular catch phrase,items in the news or either unusual or very typical situations we can identify with. Humor and irony are favorite approaches when writing. The melody and style is usually lyric driven, trying to match the beat to the lyrics in a style that fits the subject. Some of my best work in this part of the process occurs in the middle of the night, trying to get back to sleep. Always keep a pen and paper handy by the bedside. And don't forget the creative energy and acoustic properties of the long,hot shower. Most of the time I can figure out the chords on my guitar. If not I go to my keyboard. Here's another approach I'm trying on my latest effort: Band in a Box: Entering Notes using Computer Keyboard and then adjusting them in the Notation Wndow https://www.youtube.com/user/xyz4469?feature=mhee#p/u/12/HSYfMieyzAoOnce I have the basic chords down in BIAB it's over to Realband to finish it up. I guess my question as a relative newbee is: What are the advantages of finishing the song in Reaper, Sonar or some other DAW. Is the end result really worth the learning curve? Thanks Mitch for starting this thread. Carkins
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Hi Joe,
I guess I use Sonar because it's what I'm use to using as my DAW.
I've been playing around with Realband a little bit, but still feel more comfortable using Sonar at this point.
the bottom line really is the learning curve, at least for me.
I'd rather spend the time working on the music and not learning another peace of software.
Eventually when inspiration dries up and I have more time on my hands I still wanna learn Realband.
Tim
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I do all my songs in my mind first.
Sometimes I hear a chord progression in my head. I type the chords into BIAB. Then I try to find the style that I'm hearing too. (most difficult part is finding the style) After having BIAB play it a few times... a melody comes and I record it.
Other times I hear a melody. As I listen to the melody play in my mind, I envision changes behind it. Once I get the chords typed in, I'm ready to record.
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I write in my head also. I then take the song to the guitar to work out the basic chordal arrangement. Sometimes (rarely) I hack it out on piano.
When I move to BIAB it is to make backing tracks. I usually don't mess with styles. Rather, I look for individual instruments that work. I will also play with alternate chords to see if I can mix things up a bit.
The whole of it then moves to Sonar to record live instruments and vocals. Sometimes I will replace the BIAB guitar track with my playing. Sonar is my DAW of choice because I've been messing with it since version 2.
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I play on whatever it spits out at me, and then I hate myself in the morning for not playing better guitar on such great backing tracks. I love the surprise chord chart of the melody maker and it challenges, have only done 2 covers and 1 was with Mitch. Also just play to regular Blues changes, cause I'm a Blues nut. I love RB for regeneration of sections, I use Logic Pro 9 to mix-down and to add loops.
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I've found that it has been very hard for me to fit my ideas to a BIAB style that works. In fact, after many tries, I have never yet gotten even one to work. The flow of the song is never quite what I had in mind.
So what I do is:
1) play the song into RB and record it as audio. If I plan to play more than one instrument, I continue adding tracks until I've done what I can do myself.
2) clean up loose ends with audio editing to get a reasonably cohesive starting point that isn't out of time or out of tune.
3) send this to the audio chord wizard and extract chords & tempo map it. (may not be necessary if I've recorded to a click track)
4) clean up the chords, and embellish
5) At this point the song is sufficiently developed that it has the feel I wanted, and all the specific parts I wanted to play. Then I start adding additional RT instruments, being careful not to introduce any tracks that change the desired fell of the song
(This is one of the reasons why I like RB so much... it shares BIAB's ability to add content, but it lets me establish the feel of the song, then add to it. With BIAB I always feel like I have to change my part to fit the style.)
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Want to break out?
**Start working on songwriting without any instrument other than your brain and your voice involved.**
From start to finish, as far as the composition is concerned, put the whole thing together in that fashion, inclusive of Melody and Lyrics.
After the song has come together in that fashion, only then approach your instrument with the idea of *playing what you composed* rather than "composing what you can play"...
--Mac
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Well that's how the masters did it.
Rarely did a Beethoven or a Mozart actually sit down at an instrument when composing.
They would move directly from their minds to music notation.
Not hearing their composition till an orchestra got the score and played it.
And in Beethoven's case not even then.
Kind of amazing when you think about it.
Tim
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+100 Don't rely on BIAB to compose a song for you. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Awhile back a local kid with a guitar told me all about how this guitar he had was "special" -- because with it, he claimed he could write songs very easily, whereas with some of his other guitars, that didn't happen.
I said, "Don't blame it on the guitar, kid..."
--Mac
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Very tiny piece of advice about your original music.
Get it down on paper, or better yet if you have a phone
with recording memo's, sing the ditty or song into it.
Do not try to make it exact, just get the idea down and saved.
An idea for song can be very fleeting, sometimes
never comes back.
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Well that tiny piece of advice is definitely worth listening to.
I can't count the times I've had a melody or lyric pop into my head and thought o, I'll write that down when I find the time just to forget it a minute later.
These days I keep a small digital recorder handy to quickly sing a melody or speak a lyric in to it.\
Then I copy the recordings to the computer when I get home.
Tim
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