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RealBand
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Hi all,
Trying to understand when MIDI program (change sound ?) events get generated as I'm using a VSTi.
Perhaps I overlooked something, but when I went through the simple RB tutorial that has you enter a few chord changes and 'generate', when looking on the Event lists for each BB track I only saw "Note" events. How could I generate and see a 'program change' event and see it in the event list - the kind that would be used to change sounds in the VSTi ?
Thanks in advance,
Joe
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RealBand
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Joined: Dec 2011
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Probably the easiest way is in the PIANO ROLL window. In the VIEW/EDIT box select PROGRAM and you can enter program numbers and view existing ones.
ROG.
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RealBand
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Wow, for all the tinkering I've done with RB - have never used this window. Guess it's because it has the word "Piano" in it and I'm a guitar player. I would have never thought to look in here for this purpose.
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2000
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Or in event list use Insert - Program change - and select a patch number/name.
Pay attention to where in the timeline you are inserting it; often best to rewind and insert it at the beginning.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Joined: Feb 2006
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On the topic of program change - how is that different from MSB/LSB - are they mutually exclusive ways of changing sounds in your VSTi, or are they both used for different purposes ?
(thanks to all, and especially you Rharv you seem to be the guy that answers most of my questions or adds a non-trivial tidbit that increases my understanding)
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2000
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MSB/LSB is a different 'method' of changing that value. Progam change is limited to 1-128
MSB/LSB is a much larger pool of options.
MSB/LSB is usually used in Control Changes (CC). The beauty of CC's is that they allow access to more features than a standard program change message. Accessing upper banks in a synth is a common application.
Program changes are limited to 128 choices in a lot of devices. But the MSB/LSB method allows access to thousands of options in a device that supports it.
Using this method I could access thousands of patches in some synths, where 'program change' limits me to 128 (in a lot of applications).
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
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Ahhh...so it sounds like they are alternate ways of doing the same thing, and the VSTs may very well support both.
I had once asked in another post about about VST's compatible with RB, and gotten a great list. I think the next logical post would be which VST's support Program Change Events, or MSB/LSB, or both - and which are the 'easiest to use'.
On that note - perhaps also a suggestion regarding a separate board on using VST's with RB. Of course, that opens the box for VST only questions once they are compatible with RB. I think though, it is a topic that would interest a lot of people using RB.
One of my goals has been to be able to use a guitar synth to control VST's, and know and understand how to change the sounds as easily with a 'stomp box'. In this pursuit, I have realized that the MIDI sequencer and CC/program change events are the glue that would allow me to do this. I've also learned why it may be easier to just buy dedicated hardware devices to do the same, because finding all the interesting sounds you may actually want to utilize, and easily managing them in a live performance, is quite a hassle requiring lots of preparation. I know there are MIDI switch controllers that can be programmed to send MIDI CC's and Program change requests, but I don't think these interfaces display the names of the patches programmed in such a useable way - and if so, I would guess the fancy digital display would cost big bucks.
I think RB VST support has rekindled my early childhood fantasies of being a keyboard 'synth player', and controlling all those cool early analog sounds (loved the synth sounds in groups like the cars, and that one hit wonder Thomas Dolby had with 'She Blinded me with Science', Peter Gabriel, and Yes, and....well, I digress.
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RealBand
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Quote:
controlling all those cool early analog sounds (loved the synth sounds in groups like the cars, and that one hit wonder Thomas Dolby had with 'She Blinded me with Science', Peter Gabriel, and Yes, and.
Easy enough to do. As you said it just takes preparation. BTW In the true analog days they didn't have these tools. Rick Wakeman did a lot of great work before MIDI was around.
The others you mentioned relied on MIDI quite a bit.
Guitar interfaces; I have a stompbox or two that display on screen quite nicely on their own and most are very easy to control via MIDI. My digitech is actually easier to control from the computer interface than on the pedal itself.
Many big time acts used MIDI to control a lot of the show. The synths, guitar sounds, lights, vocal FX, you name it. Plan out a song or two like that. It's fun.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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