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On the timing issue:
Notation is a limited way of transcribing music there are many things it simply does not describe - the volume of individual notes for example, its a limited system, developed ad hoc from a variety of choral and orchestral needs - over centuries and for the limitations of scratchy quills on bits of parchment.
I once saw a chart for a sax solo (pick up the pieces) which was a mess of hemi-demi- quavers (64ths US i think. What was really going on was the player was playing a little early thats all. If you wrote it out without the 'earliness' it became legible and simple to play. Similarly a live performance scored by a machine will capture nuances in a unwanted pedantic and over scrupulous fashion.
There are two forms of quantise (in my mind at least) with variants of each. In 'ordinary' quantize the length of the MIDI notes are adjusted and so the nuances of the performace are lost (you can keep two copies of course).
In the second type "Display quantise" the length of the MIDI note remains the same (and the performance left untouched) but the notation is adjusted to 'make sense' or simplify it for others to read. Cubase uses this tech but I am not sure about FInale or Sibelius. I think not, but dont know.
Capturing melodic ideas from a performance has two aspects. Firstly capturing the actual sound. Secondly, making some form of non-acccurate notational representation - a simplification - that is easy for a reader to intepret, particularly if sight reading. These are two different tasks. Notation should be simple as possible (IMO) and the musician should add the nuances.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I am still confused as to why you put BIAB and Finale in the same sentence. The two are apples and kumquats. Finale is notation software. BIAB/RB is composition software.
A lawn mower (Finale) cuts grass. A tractor (BIAB) cuts grass, tills, plows, grades.... They both WILL cut the grass, but the tractor does so much more. And in this case, the tractor only costs a slight bit more than the lawn mower.
And to be honest, charting note for note is WAY overrated. You REALLY need to see someone else's solo? Are you going to "xerox" it or play what YOUR heart feels when you get your 16 bars of fame?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Over a year ago I asked questions of Finale on a private forum. Peter replied with the answers. It seems that BIAB can do all the key things I am looking for. I extracted a few items below but I think they both do these. Yes, I think everyone knows Finale can modify notation faster and better but If I need it better I will Try MuseScore. If wondering about the delay, I was going to sell a guitar to buy Finale (not sold yet which is good for the BIAB people). When asking about Finale Peter said: Quote:
Finale's quantization settings can compensate for unprecise rhythm playing by adjusting the timing to the nearest integer note value of your specification (e. g. to the nearest 8th note).
For my purposes that would be perfect. If BIAB/RB does this when I record a midi improvised solo against its playback chord tracks that is just great!
When asking about Finale Peter said:
Quote:
Finale's hyperscribe can record MIDI playing.
With hyperscribe the pitch (= what MIDI key) is recorded precisely.
Therefore hyperscribe can record chord playing.
Yes I remember this. In Finale they have a form you fill out where you enter the guitar string and it figured out the note from that so I guess this is how it can figure out guitar chord notes and stack them immediately on the staff as you play them. I am curious how BIAB does it since I did see it in the video above(and at the very bottom of this post).
http://www.finalemusic.com/UserManuals/F...nstruments6.htm
When asking about Finale Peter said:
Quote:
Finale works with MIDI code.
You can play an audio file while Finale simultaneously plays MIDI code, but Finale can't edit an audio file.
I gather BIAB does both. You can cut/paste etc audio wave data and do the same with Midi.
When asking about Finale Peter said:
Quote:
You can edit your Midi input notes and chords with mouse, with computer keyboard, and with MIDI keyboard.
I assume BIAB can do it with a mouse or rerecord a segment of a prior recorded Midi track.
Quote:
Notation should be simple as possible (IMO) and the musician should add the nuances.
I agree.
In my case I am not using BIAB to compose. The type of composing I will be doing is improvising solos against Chords of a song (normally an existing song such as SummerTime) then if I like something I improvised against these chords played back in BIAB then I will capture it and use it to assemble a new song. I may use the same or different chords but BIAB will not chose them, I will. On the other hand, if I play a solo against chords of Summertime as played back by BIAB and I do not think there is anything special melodically I will just record over the track next time until I finally like something (no point in looking at the notation if it has nothing special to offer). If I am jamming with others I will drag the notebook computer around with me and always be recording a Midi version of my playing always trying to Mine those special melodies that may crop up spur of the moment. This leads to a very interesting question. Can BIAB record chords coming in from a Microphone on one track and onto another track at the same time record my Midi input. If it can do this that would be just great! I am going to guess that it can not.
So based upon this Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VxCPlfV1lA
I have to assume that BIAB does some sort of quantization if the midi input this guitarist was playing. It was not hard to read. Because the notes are already on the staff, I figure he must have recorded the Midi then came back and played along with it to make the video so you could see him playing at the same time. Either that or he had some way of syncing up a play back of the notes to the original video of his playing.
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/07/12 05:04 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I am still confused as to why you put BIAB and Finale in the same sentence. The two are apples and kumquats. Finale is notation software. BIAB/RB is composition software.
I can't find the scroll feature in this forum to find your name so "Hi (maybe Eddie)" will have to do for now.
I see you mean after searching Google with the search string "editing notation in band in the box" and finding this link.
http://www.drdobbs.com/web-development/band-in-a-box-finale-amp-musicxml/184405808
If you search this web page with "Mildly" you be taken down to where he describes the shortcomings of the BIAB editor as well as some of the problems with how the program creates notation from the Midi files as it records it. But he then goes on to explain how he gets the files to Finale and back. Isn't Google amazing when you start to design improved search strings.
Below is a small extract of (how he works around the export/import problems), which will get some interested in clicking the link above to study it more thoroughlly as I am doing right now.
Quote:
Exporting with Style
To get an SMF file with the melody and sufficient harmonic information to represent the current chord symbol at the proper place, I developed a Band-In-A-Box export style by using Band-In-A-Box's Stylemaker process. Building the style took less than five minutes because the export style plays only one bass note, the root, in the bass part and only one chord in the piano accompaniment part for each chord change. The style plays a very simple version of the tune. Kind of like when you learned "Heart and Soul" on the piano when you were a kid.
So when I sell my mint condition 1981 Mark Beneteau guitar (and apply the savings from buying the lowest cost Midi setup for the ES345) I just buy both BIAB & Finale (or use MuseScore instead of Finale).
Here is an important question.
I am wondering if it is possible to run BIAB on the computer and Finale at the same time and send the Midi solos I am playing against the BIAB tracks to Finale rather than having to do a lot of editing after recording them in BIAB and getting the file to Finale. I have 4 computers at my disposal so maybe I can use a dual computer setup for this if it can not be done on my main machine which is the more powerful one. I remember now. If I buy Finale I definitely have to upgrade my most powerful machine.
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/08/12 04:24 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi John, I'm very impressed with all the homework you've been doing. I just wanted to clarify a couple of things. After reading through the "Band In A Box" section in the link you gave, I note that Dr Dobbs says ... Quote:
The latest version, Band-In-A-Box 2004. [I see that the page was written on 1 Sept. 2004.]
I just want to point out that there have been many changes to the program since 2004. If one considers half-yearly updates, there have been 16 of them since his webpage was written.
Also, where he says ...
Quote:
Almost everybody uses the digital piano because the Band-In-A-Box notation editor is lacking, to put it mildly.
I TOTALLY disagree with this statement. Although I have a keyboard connected to my computer, I rarely use it to enter music. I do all my notation entry with the mouse because I find the present BIAB notation editor is the fastest and easiest way to enter notation. It's a different process from usual score writing programs but it is very efficient! I love it.
Below is an image of a part of one of my song that I've transcribed using BIAB. After notating the song in BIAB, I printed it to a pdf file for a hard copy. For 99.5% of my notation requirements, BIAB (Windows version) does the job just fine.
From a notation perspective, BIAB limits the display to 1/16th notes as the smallest note size. To be honest, I've never found that a problem. BIAB MIDI playback and MIDI recording, on the other hand, can record much smaller value notes. It's just that they will not display correctly in notation.
Hope this information helps.
Regards,
Noel
Last edited by Noel96; 07/08/12 06:25 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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To augment what Noel has said, I can use my keyboard controller, midi guitar controller, wind controller, drum pad controller or I can write notes using my mouse in BiaB.
Like Noel BiaB is fine for my notational needs.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Hi Noel (and Mario), Thanks for your reply. Yes it does help. It will change the sequence of this todo list. Quote:
Determine the computer requirements for (Finale / BIAB / MultiCharts), create a spread sheet of costs, sell my Marc Beneteau guitar, [BUY: a new computer. Midi setup, BIAB], then later determine if I need to use MuseScore and if need be even Finale).
It also makes me aware I should first search for "20" in the page to see if I can find the date.
Excellent:
BIAB is looking better all the time. I just found out that if I am out jamming with others, using a notebook I can set up a mike to record an audio of the session so I hear the chords etc of the other players while at the same time feeding the Midi into a 2nd track and feeding my guitar to the amp so I do not hear any tracking errors. That way on playback one can hear their playing and everyone's playing as well as get a very clear editable recording of only their guitar playing to use for closer study, practicing a new riff, storing that riff or capturing melodic gems for writing songs.
Thanks again,
John
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/08/12 04:12 PM.
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