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Hi,
I am considering the purchase of BIAB, RealBand or finale notation software (possibly this fall when I hope to have more time to use it). I have a few questions and probably will post more questions as purchase time approaches as I think of them.
Thanks,
John
I was trying to find the general difference(s) between BIAB and RealBand (RB). I could not easily find anything. Where might it be described or what is the difference.
Can BIAB or RealBand do the following:
Am I correct in assuming I can do a count in of one or two bars as the user specifies. Something as simple a computer voice giving the count would be perfect.
Can I specify an unlimited number of repeats of the song and if I want also decide to have only 4 repeats of the song.
Primary use: I play guitar. I will have BIAB/RB provide the drums, base, piano then record my guitar jazz chord rhythm over top of this on a separate track and use this to practice melody and improvising against. I doubt I will ever use any tracks other than drums,bass,piano and I will probably be very limited in the use of styles (basic jazz, funk, blues styles only).
Related to the "Primary Use" I may want to go back and rerecord (change) my rhythm track.
Related to the "Primary Use" I may want to also record the melody and the solos.
The reason I have been looking at Finale notation software is because I will at times write songs and hand out the lead sheets to others to jam. So with Finale I can feed a Midi guitar into it while doing a solo, capture parts I like then use these melody segments to to create a song. I can also change the notes including changing the timing (not just the note itself). So when I saw the printed notes in the RB video I was wondering if it can do the midi capture, the adjustments, and the printout as a lead sheet with the chord symbols.
Related to the "Primary Use" Can I record a few solos and play back only one of them at a time to look for segements that I might want to use for writing songs.
Finale requires a major upgrade to my computer (new one) I guess I need to look at your system requirements. Maybe is there is a manual on the website I could study that to reduce the number of questions.
I guess that is it for now.
Thanks again.
John
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John, Welcome to the forum. If you purchase BIAB, you'll automatically get the latest version of Realband at no extra charge. They come together as a partnership. Both BIAB and RB (Windows versions) will print lead sheet notation. I've found this quite ok for most purposes. If I need anything more elaborate, I use MuseScore. MuseScore is a freeware notation program that reads in BIAB files, too. You other questions ... Quote:
Can I specify an unlimited number of repeats of the song
Yep. You could set the song in "loop" mode and so it would keep (re)playing a specified range of bars. This could be the whole song.
Quote:
... if I want also decide to have only 4 repeats of the song.
That's also possible. It's specified as "number of choruses" since from a BIAB/RB perspective, one chorus means "once through the entire song". (This is the classical definition of chorus and not the popular music definition.)
Quote:
Am I correct in assuming I can do a count in of one or two bars as the user specifies
Yes. This is given by a side-stick beat (not a voiced count). It can also be show visually, which I find quite useful.
Quote:
Can I record a few solos and play back only one of them at a time to look for segements that I might want to use for writing songs
Realband will let you do this quite comfortably once you get the hang of it.
Quote:
Related to the "Primary Use" I may want to go back and rerecord (change) my rhythm track.
Related to the "Primary Use" I may want to also record the melody and the solos.
Again, this is where Realband excels.
Hope this helps,
Noel
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Also, I think Finale NotePad, which is free, will do everything you need Finale to do, so it's not even an either-or -- you can get it all. 
Best, Tom SmithWin10/64 • i7-8700K • 24 GB RAM BIAB 2025 • Reaper 7 • Izotope MPS AKG C1000S • IK iRig I/O Pro
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Welcome to the forum and we're looking forward to you becoming a contributing member after a basic learning period. Biab and RB will do everything you want and much more but it does sound like from the tone of your questions you've never done digital audio recording before? Have you worked with one of the big name DAW's? DAE = Digital Audio Workstation. Real Band is a DAW. Biab is sort of a DAW but not really. Both can do notation and can print out charts but consider the full version of Finale costs more than both Biab and RB combined not counting the cost of all the Real Tracks and Drums. That means Finale does much more in the way of notation and chart writing than either of these programs can do. The question is does Biab and RB do enough to satisfy you? I don't know the answer to that but for most of us that answer is a qualified yes. Realize though notation and chart writing are not these programs primary purpose. The primary purpose is exactly what you're asking about. Creating some really good jam tracks to basically any song you want for you to play with, write solos to, all that kind of thing. You have complete control over repeats, first/second endings, coda's, tag endings etc. There's so much control that Biab is pretty complex when you want to dig in to these things. But, to just get started it's pretty simple to pick a style, enter the chords from either your head or a written chart and hit play. It's all the cool details after you've done that is where the program really shines but it will take some time for you to get familiar with it.
Nothing is perfect, there will be a few things you'll wish it could do better but overall there's nothing even close to what these programs can do. They really are unique and you won't be disappointed.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Thanks everyone for the replies.
Sorry it took me a while to get back to it. I guess I assumed I would get an email notice. I will have to double check my user settings.
Regarding:
it does sound like from the tone of your questions you've never done digital audio recording before? Have you worked with one of the big name DAW's? DAE = Digital Audio Workstation.
I was a guitar instructor, quit at age 33 and have come back to relive my youth :-) I have been using an old CakeWake for Win 95 Running on XP. I have used Audacity to do some .wav cut and paste type work. That is about it.
I'll have to come back to this post and a Finale post from a while ago to decide. There is no doubt that for what I am doing at this very moment BIAB/RB would be easily enough. It mostly depends whether I start Jamming again with other players and get into it like I use to be. Time is an issue these days too. Thinking I am going to be able to do major things thus warranting Finale may be a bit over ambitious on my part (I suspect so).
Thanks again,
John
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/04/12 10:30 AM.
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Noel, you just made my year!!!! I saw your mention of MuseScore so I downloaded it to take a look even though I use Sibelious. I found that after opening my BIAB files (a real feat by itself), I can then export to the new music.xml format (beta), which I can then import into Sibelius and voilà! I not only get the melody, which I can get with a simple midi file from BIAB, but also the chord symbols. Great!!!! This will save me a ton of time.
Maybe the new version of BIAB will have a save as music.xml or export to music.xml feature but until then, this is fantastic. Thanks for the info.
Last edited by Bob Roetker; 07/04/12 11:38 AM.
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I use BiaB a lot for lead sheets. I think it does a good job and it is very fast and convenient. Once you have created a song in BiaB the printing is nearly automatic.
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If you use a notation software to play in notes via a midi guitar you will find that timing nuances make spaghetti out of your notation. You can heavily quantize your input (I dont know if finale does quantise it probable does). You can also play it in at a slower tempo and get the timing spot on. Depends on what you want to input this way, many contepmary 'lick style' phrases would give a member of the LSO a heart attack if written out exactly, and their are many apsects fo the sound that are not represented in the notation. You may end up inputing notes via a keyboard or mouse.
This is where Real Tracks comes in, for almost all purposes the real performance is vastly superior to any MIDI reconstruction - no matter how skilled. You will not regret buying it.
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Regarding:
This is where Real Tracks comes in, for almost all purposes the real performance is vastly superior to any MIDI reconstruction - no matter how skilled. You will not regret buying it.
Before I get into the real reason for asking about your Quote ZeroZero, Is there a way to highlight your text as a quot? It looks like this forum needs a bit of an upgrade.
Anyway, I left this question out because I figured BIAB/RB would not be advanced enough to bring in to notation normal recordings from a normal (none midi) guitar (in my case a Gibson ES345 not that this matters). Along the timing issue line, the person from Finale said you have to be careful with Midi input to get it so it looks like the timing you are trying to play. In my use, the notes I will be after will be the simple melodic stuff (sometimes our solos create amazing melodic gems and if you are not ready to catch them they will be forever gone). There is an old saying "Speed kills". Although I can tremolo skim scales at speeds of 150/160 in 1/16ths this type of playing is highly overdone by guitarists and the stuff that people remember is much slower (Summertime! need I say more). Slow (and average speed) is good and that is all I need to capture.
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/05/12 04:22 AM.
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Quote:
Before I get into the real reason for asking about your Quote ZeroZero, Is there a way to highlight your text as a quot? It looks like this forum needs a bit of an upgrade.
you can indeed set quotes (as I have done above to your words)
If you are familiar with HTML, the formatting on this forum is similar, except it uses square brackets instead of angle brackets.
To begin a quote, put the word "quote" (without the quotation marks, and It must be lower case) between square brackets [qoute] <- I purposefully spelled it incorrectly so it would display as text and not as formatting
To end a quote, use the same command, but with a forward slash before the word quote
visual example, spelled incorrectly on purpose: [/qoute]
in summary, when you enter a quote , in your editor it will look like this:
[qoute] this text will appear inside a box [/qoute]
but when it displays on the forum it will look like the quote above of your words.
So, maybe the forum doesn't need an upgrade after all.
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What are you talking about Boweles? The buttons for that are right in front of you in everybody's posts. What do you see to the right of the header in each post? Reply, Quote and Quick Reply. It's called Duh...
You want to quote something you hit ummm...the Quote button maybe??
You're new and that's fine but please don't start with the criticisms until you have a clue how things work. Most of us really hate that. Those buttons are fast shortcuts but as you see how it works you'll start writing the code out manually like Pat described.
Your description of your situation as a former music teacher wanting to get back into it is pretty much what all of us here do. We wern't all teachers but some are. In my case I was a full time touring player back in the day, got out of music completely for years and them picked it back up. I realized I either had to do that or give up music forever so I bought my first synth keyboard, a Kurzweil K1000 back in 1987 and started gigging again. I started with Biab about 7 years ago. With absolutely zero background with computers and less than zero experience working with any kind of music related programs it was a struggle believe me. And yes I admit I had my share of stupid comments in posts because I had no clue what I was doing.
There programs are fantastic, that's all I can say. Not perfect mind you and I have lots of wishlist items like we all do but still great tools anyway. Biab is used by music teachers the world over including a good friend who teaches guitar and owns three teaching studios. All his teachers use Biab because of the tools like the ear training function, setting up the circle of fifths for practice plus of course setting up whatever song you want a student to practice that week. The original key is G and he learns that so a couple of mouse clicks and it's now in Bb and you tell him to do it there, etc.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Quote:
So, maybe the forum doesn't need an upgrade after all.
Thanks Pat. I should have caught on I guess since I did see the quotes above. What you describe does match the format of the other forums I am use to which has the buttons on my form rather than on the other person's post. On those forums I highlight the text I want, click the quote button and paste between the HTML codes.
I gave this format another shot by highlighting the text I want to quote and it seems to quote the whole post (which I do not want and which happened last time now that I remember it). I guess I should have been more precise in asking if there was a way to get the qoute button on my form.
Hi Bob. As far as criticizing programming I do not see it that way. Maybe that is because I left guitar teaching at age 26 to become a programmer and I have been programming 31 years. I have tones of flaws in my programs and I have a huge list of improvements (which I can not keep up with) but I do not make the mistake of confusing that list with attacking my total person (I do not overgeneralize in other words). Programmers/designers know this and accept this. They welcome any input that can make their programs and design better. If they do not think this way someone else says "I can do better" and before they know it there are better products out there. The very best programmers thirst for feedback (I wish I could get feedback on my database program). Having said that I think it is great that you are defending the programmers with such strength. Your right, normally they get bashed. So thanks for defending programmers (since I am more of a programmer these days than a guitarist and I wish I could play like I use to).
Anyway, I am off topic. LOL. I will post this and keep working at this quote button that is in a location I am not use to. I am assuming there is a way to use the button to quote a portion of text. You might have guessed that my 31 years of programming did not involve learning HTML.
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/05/12 09:47 AM.
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Quote:
test
Okay, I guess the quote button gives me everything in my post from the other person's post and I have to strip out what I want. If I want to segment it then I do the cut and paste procedures. Now I think I am up to speed on it. Like I said, it is a bit different than what I am use to but it is fine. I should have been more careful in asking the question.
Your right, I am new. I did a few updates earlier today, thought they went through and when I cam back to them the update was not there. Time for another forum test. Okay this update held. I must have missed the final submit.
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/05/12 09:53 AM.
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Hi Bob, Now that I think I have the quote button skill mastered (more or less) I am finally reading the rest of your post. Quote:
Your description of your situation as a former music teacher wanting to get back into it is pretty much what all of us here do. We wern't all teachers but some are. In my case I was a full time touring player back in the day, got out of music completely for years and them picked it back up. I realized I either had to do that or give up music forever so I bought my first synth keyboard, a Kurzweil K1000 back in 1987 and started gigging again. I started with Biab about 7 years ago. With absolutely zero background with computers and less than zero experience working with any kind of music related programs it was a struggle believe me. And yes I admit I had my share of stupid comments in posts because I had no clue what I was doing.
There programs are fantastic, that's all I can say. Not perfect mind you and I have lots of wishlist items like we all do but still great tools anyway. Biab is used by music teachers the world over including a good friend who teaches guitar and owns three teaching studios. All his teachers use Biab because of the tools like the ear training function, setting up the circle of fifths for practice plus of course setting up whatever song you want a student to practice that week. The original key is G and he learns that so a couple of mouse clicks and it's now in Bb and you tell him to do it there, etc.
Bob
Music is just a really competitive business (bad supply demand situation). Only so many great players can make it (and a lot that do not are really great or would be if they kept it up). I will never forget when I went to college to study music, this horn player saying he went to another City thinking he could make a living, decided what he wanted to do and found 500 others trying to do exactly the same thing. That was 1972. It is worst today I figure.
I quit for 22 years after playing for 20. An old drummer friend talked me into playing again (took me 6 months of his bugging me and listening to my old stuff to get up the nerve to touch the guitar). When I first picked it up I could not even play my old scale exercises at speed 80 in 1/16ths. It took me 6 months to get back up to speed. Back at age 26 I was just figuring out how to play super fast but could not do it. Now I have just figured out a good way to practice this but it takes like 30 minute to maintain and all the other good stuff suffers. Only so many hours in a day. It is about the only thing I can actually do better than when I was teaching. Everything else is no where near as good. Its funny, now that I have master that form of picking (not as good as the best of course) it really shows that the fingering hand is now the weak link. Its fun though.
Quote:
Biab because of the tools like the ear training function
Thanks for letting me know this. I need this. LOL, now to fit it in? It sounds like BIAB/RT is definitely worth getting.
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/05/12 10:38 AM.
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Biab/RB are easily worth the price. As for a notation program I find Sibelius to be easier to use than Finale though Finale is much easier now then it used to be.
I'm going to have to check out MuseScore. It Sounds like I'll be able to save a ton of time moving between Biab and a notation program.
The harder I work the luckier I get.
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Quote:
Biab/RB are easily worth the price. As for a notation program I find Sibelius to be easier to use than Finale though Finale is much easier now then it used to be.
I'm going to have to check out MuseScore. It Sounds like I'll be able to save a ton of time moving between Biab and a notation program.
I had been using Sibelius for a number of years, ver. 4.0. It was the student version and Sibelius would not let me register it again after my computer crashed. I found both Sibelius and Finale very expenseive for my use. I was going for MuseScore, but decided to give PrintMusic a try. It was not free $99, but I thought maybe being a registered user has some advantages. There's a learning curve, but if you've used any notation software, PrintMusic is not that difficult and I'm already finding some neat features that Sibelius didn't have. I have tried and tried to learn to use the BIAB notation, but My old mind just doesn't seem to want to think the way that software works. Seems like I'm always working backwards?
Cornet Curmudgeon
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I just realized that the last question was missed due to the quote button distraction so I rewrote it in a more compact fashion and added something else of interest. While listening to BIAB/RB tracks, I realize Midi-guitar solo notes can be input in BIAB/RB, recorded and transferred to finale which has features to help you align the notes more properly on the correct time then (after adjusting the notes) it can be printed. Can solo notes from a regular electric guitar be input to get this result? If not is there a way to convert them to midi for this purpose? Related to this, out of curiosity, I was looking for the software that can record chords from a regular guitar and show the notes stacked on the screen (apparently it can figure them out individually). It is called Celomony and can be found at http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna. In the process of doing this search I found this review of MuseScore. There is a fairly long discussion at the bottom that may be of interest to some. http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-music-notation-software.htm
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/06/12 04:01 AM.
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The program is called Melodyne and it's been discussed here a lot. The thing is while the promise is good in practice it's apparently useful but still not quite there. There are a few here who use it and they say it's pretty good for single lines and vocal correction but only fair for chords and pretty useless for multitrack stuff. It's also not cheap either. It works best with a clean pure sound and that's hard to find. Audio to midi conversion programs have been talked about for years and there's been a lot of vaporware floating around but nobody has managed to really nail it yet
The best thing for you is to get a midi guitar. When you input midi notes you then have access to all the midi editing functions built in to these programs. Also, something I think you will really like are the Real Charts. Quite a few Real Tracks (but not all) have been transcribed the old fashioned way and manually entered as midi notes. This is not some kind of computer conversion, they were transcribed by ear. Mac mentioned a few years ago he did some of that. That means you can hear a Brent Mason solo and see the whole thing written out on the lead sheet. You can also cut and paste the midi info into a separate track and set up a midi synth to play it. When you do that you lose all the live nuance the player put into it but if you want to hear a trumpet or something play Brent's solo you can.
These programs really have a lot to offer.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Comes down to what you want it to do. You want something that will write for you, BIAB/RB. Finale does what it does very well, and I use it for notation, but it doesn't compose.
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Quote:
The program is called Melodyne
Thanks Bob. I remember now. It has been over a year since I was researching Melodyne, Finale and Silebius and I could not remember the name (work has filled my brain pretty much since then). When I finally found the link I went with celemony without digging farther figuring the link would make it clear to anyone interested.
I have definitely decided on BIAB\RB after hearing this link last night. Nice playing by the way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VxCPlfV1lA
I will probably get a GK-3 pickup to put on the Gibson ES345 and feed it into a simple Midi Interface like the GI-20 (same as on the recording in the link). The cheaper the better. I am trying to figure out if my computer needs anything special to receive the Midi signal from the Interface. If it does I have to delay until I upgrade my machine since I have to do that anyway.
Quote:
Audio to midi conversion programs have been talked about for years and there's been a lot of vaporware floating around but nobody has managed to really nail it yet
I am not sure if the G2M Guitar to MIDI converter is classed as an "Audio to Midi Conversion" since it does only single notes but I saw 3 demos and it seems that if you play the guitar properly it works fairly well. I am wondering if I can make due with just this box (for now at least) with nothing more than a BIAB purchase.
Quote:
Brent Mason
Brent Mason. Interesting you should mention that name. I mentioned I program. Upon starting to play guitar again, I created a database of interesting guitarists I have discovered (200+ now). I just put Brent in (very good player). I can't resist mentioning that, of all the 200+ guitarists in there, Scotty Anderson amazes me the most. If any guitar players are reading this and have not heard Scotty check him out on YouTube. If you watch all his videos (about 45 I think) you'll eventually discover he is doing several things new that I have never seen before (stretch cord voicings with the thumb out front from under the neck rather than over, tremolo skimming with a thumb pick like a flat pick while also finger picking at very high speed) - technique to burn - amazing. Maybe getting off topic is not cool on this forum so I will stop here.
It appears my search is done now. I think for a guy who use to play 6 to 12 hours a day during ages 15 to 25 and now has dropped to only 1 hour (and when I find time and players to jam with maybe 2/3 hours) going the Finale route may be a bit too pricey to justify. Like I said in my first post. I am revisiting my youth (but not moving in).
Thanks again guys,
John
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/07/12 12:34 PM.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Holiday Weekend Hours
Our Customer Service hours this weekend are as follows:
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Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
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Update to RealBand® 2025 Build 5 Windows Today!
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PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 is here! This new version introduces many features, including VST3 support, the ability to load or import a .FLAC file, a reset option for track height in the Tracks window, a taller Timeline on the Notation window toolbar, new freeze buttons in the Tracks window, three toolbar modes (two rows, single row, and none), the improved Select Patch dialog with text-based search and numeric patch display, a new button in the DirectX/VST window to copy an effects group, and more!
First-time packages start at only $49. Already a PowerTracks Pro Audio user? Upgrade for as little as $29!
www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
Video: Summary of the New Band-in-a-Box® App for iOS®
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new Band-in-a-Box® app for iOS®! Designed for musicians, singer-songwriters, and educators, this powerful tool lets you create, play, and transfer songs effortlessly on your iPhone® or iPad®—anytime, anywhere.
Band-in-a-Box® for iOS® :Summary video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
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