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Howdy Folks, Just put this song together last night, and did some minor tweaking today. It uses a couple of Real Tracks (pedal steel, and a midi bass that was patched over to a Real Track and drums). I can post the specific styles and RT references I used later (it is on my music PC upstairs and I'm at my work computer downstairs at the moment). In terms of other instruments, I used a Taylor 324CE on the rhythym track, duplicated that track, added a little delay to one side, and panned each of those tracks hard left and right. There is also a Fender Strat playing during the 8-bar instrumental break. My vocals are still a weakness (prolly always will be) and I was wondering if anyone thinks they are too "hot" in the mix. I am tempted to reduce the gain and/or volume. Any advice you have with the song, or any part of the mix would be great. FWIW - my wife just commented that she liked the first song I did (the other day) better than this one. Sometimes our music tastes and preferences differ, so I'm not taking her comment too seriously. I do encourage her honest opinions.  I kinda like this project, in that I feel I have stepped up my skills a tad bit using the BIAB program. Also, wifey was quick to point out that both songs (River of Timeand now Comes A Time), both use 'Time' as a theme. DOH! I promised her, and you my fellow forumites, that I will focus on other subject(s) in the future!  And now the link: Comes A TimeThanks for your input and comments!
Living in The Music City
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Well, Mike...your production has taken a quantam leap, my friend. Very clean and tasteful. I like this song better than the first, but it's actually very different musically, so it's hard to compare. I like them both...differently. Anyway...I listened with a headset and your panorama sounds quite nice. Here are some things I heard that you might want to play with:
-vocal needs a de-esser. A bit too much sibilance for my taste. You probably have a de-esser plugin.
-the Strat and the steel seem to be competing with each other for sonic space. Split 'em up right and left and don't let them walk on each other i.e. alternate the volumes during each one's break.
-You vocal seemed just a tad hot, but when I listened through the headset it wasn't as prominent. Songs that are being promoted as vocal demos often have hotter vocals to be sure the lyrics are heard. So it's rather a matter of taste. I'd like to hear that vocal with a LITTLE BIT of echo (slapback, kinda like rock-a-billy) and a harmony vocal during the chorus. If you can't do your own harmonies or don't have another vocalist available try a light chorus effect on your lead vocal, or double it like you did with the guitar and then chorus one of the tracks. If you're really adventurous, run the original vocal track through the TC Helicon Harmony effect in BIAB or RealBand and do a four part thing like Crosby, Stills, Nash, and YOUNG. (see last paragraph)
-The drums definately need more reverb.
-The ending needs to be cleaner...maybe a bit longer with the final notes held. Do you know how to do that with BIAB?
The thing that REALLY blows me away about this song...actually it's not the song...it's your voice...is how much you sound like Neil Young. You actually sing quite a bit better than him, but your "voice quality" is dead on. If I didn't know it was you, I'd think Neil had bought a copy of BIAB and was trying to mess with us. If I were producing you I'd ride that horse right into the ground. Seriously, you should use this to your advantage.
Don't worry about the "Time" theme...you're on a roll!!
Great job, man. Keep 'em coming
Bob
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Mike,
If only I could sing as well as you....
Great song, especially enjoyed the lyrics/story of the song.
I don't have the chops to comment other than the ending is short as Bob mentioned.
I prefer to have the vocal strong as in your song. The vocals to me are the
"Instruments" needed to hear. Your voice is strong, but have a soft quality, so great from
my "hearing". Also listened on my Studio Phones. Whole different ballgame.
Thanks for your hard work and sharing.
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Bob - as always, thanks for your kind words and helpful suggestions. I'm going to spend some time this evening polishing it up based upon your input. I thought about the harmonies too, and not sure I'll be able to nail it in live recording. I may try the program's TC effect and see how that sounds.
Frank - thank you, as well. I've run into lots of folks who complain about their voices. I'm one of those people. I think the key is to find one's "niche". I mean, let's face it, Bob Dylan doesn't sing well in a classical sense, he just has the right voice for HIS songs. Perhaps with some more experience I'll have a better feel for what I can/should/should not do. Right now for me, it just experimenting...
One more general comment - I'm still just totally blown away by this product. I'm so glad (and very thankful) I was able to purchase it and explore my creative side. So far, it is a very rich and fulfilling experience. Wow!
Living in The Music City
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Mike,
Your voice is an instrument.
Practice, practice, practice. Sing a lot, in the car, in the shower,
for your system.
I did some recordings for a very talented country friend of mine a few
years ago. Could always tell when he had not been singing.
Keep on "Practicin"!
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Journeyman
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Mike...not to push the point, but here's a little story for ya. After three years of MC'ing the Lazy B show at the western dinner theater of the same name, and over three hundred concerts there (I was a tenor), I thought my voice was great. It was powerful and clear and I had a great range. Then I heard about a local voice teacher who had worked at Julliard in NYC. So I figured I would try to make my voice even better by taking lessons from her. Within a month of starting classes my range was expanded two whole tones top and bottom, my ennuciation, breathing, and pitch control were all greatly improved to the point that my bandmates were blown away. The moral: Invest in yourself no matter if you think you're a great singer or a lousy singer. Everybody can always get a little bit better at what they do.
As a producer I've heard a lot of voices over the years; some really great ones, and some hideous ones. I've learned to recognize potential and especially uniqueness in a voice. Uniqueness is more important that anything in a vocalist. It's that recognizable quality that some of the greats have, like Dylan and Jagger, even though their vocal chops are not the greatest. My point is...you have that vocal uniqueness AND you have potential. You're a good songwriter and you're becoming a credible audio tecnician. So invest in your best musical attribute...your voice. It'll be worth it. Trust me.
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Frank and Bob - good points, all of them. I may consider the voice lesson thing. Think I'll 'nose' around for who locally might be available.
BTW - I've re-processed the song and it is up on the original link. I'm wondering now if there's TOO MUCH effects on the vocals. There is probably a fine line between too much and not enough - it just sounds a little too 'muddy' (over-saturated?) to my ears. Maybe it's just me...
Would sure appreciate your opinions! Thanks, Guys!
Living in The Music City
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Sibilance is gone from vocal. Good job. The steel is competing with the vocal so push it out further, 75% OR more, or turn it down some. Piano is a bit too loud too. Basically any instrument that has a range equivalent to the human voice will compete with your vocals and has to be subdued.
I don't think you used too much reverb. Perhaps the kind of reverb you've chosen is causing you to hear it as muddy. Experiment with changing the reverb from pre to post and see which one you like best. You can also double your vocal track and have one clean and one with reverb/effects a bit down in the mix. You might also want to experiment with your de-esser and be sure you haven't overcompensated for the sibilance, which will cause the vocal to be very "mid-rangy" and muddy.
Did I hear a harmony in there somewhere? If so, bring it up in the mix as it's a bit too subtle, tentative. Should just be slightly under the vocal, gain wise, and should have it's own sonic space, at least 20-30%
Use an EQ (Dynamics) preset that adds some highs back in on your final mix (on the master channel) and see if that helps the muddiness.
Did you originally record the vocals through a channel strip? Or just into the DAW? I'm wondering why you had any sibilance at all. Some people enunciate in such a way as to emphasize sibilance naturally. Whatever, it's something to avoid when recording, rather than trying to fix later.
BTW...the song sounds great and is much improved. We're down to splitting hairs now. But remember, recording is a clinical process. If you're ever going for perfection now is the time.
Bob
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Love this because it's lyrically excellent. Don't know much about production to be honest so I can't comment on it. But I love a song with a story, probably the reason I like Johnny cash so much and this sort of reminds me of being in the Johnny Cash genre.
In my opinion your voice is your voice! Refine it like any instrument, but don't change it too much otherwise I think you start to lose a lot of yourself, like those plastics do on x-factor that use overkill auto-tune!
Anyway, it's a song I'll listen to again and a song I'd like to sing.
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Nice song. Good use of BIAB. I think the instruments (drums especially) could come up in the mix and the vocals could get blended in a bit (come down in mix). But it sounds good.
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Nice Mike. You are really coming along.
Until you find a good local teacher, you can find some good vocal exercises and tips on youtube. Just google voice lessons youtube or vocal exercises youtube.
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I liked the song, and the guitar solo in particular. It fits the genre well, and it's nice to hear a relatively sparse arrangement. I can hear the Neil Young in your voice that Bob pointed out. The main negative is that the drum seems a bit boxy and distant, like it's in another room. On the verses, you fade a bit as you reach the end the the lyric. I remember reading that most amateurs can begin the notes well - it's the sustain that's tricky! (Well, that and everything else ) You've got that talking/singing thing going on, but Bob's right on about the potential in your voice. Thanks for posting!
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Mike,
I really liked the song and your performance. Good job!
SpaceDog
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Nice production. Thanks 4 sharing! My Music
My TunesPsalm 57:7 My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music.
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Great song, especially good lyrics and vocals plus the backing tracks fit like a glove.
I give it two thumbs up!
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Thanks, to the folks who recently commented on the song - Mario, PGFantastic, Sapcedog and Dcuny. Your comments are greatly appreciated.
Not to beat a dead horse, but I did some recording last night and today and the final FINAL version is up at the original link. I added a few bars, recorded an electric guitar riff using my strat, re-recorded my vox and added live harmony vox. Well, I guess it is a pretty much a complete overhaul! For now, I'm satisfied with it and ready to move onto other things...
As a matter of fact, I now have a new challenge to consider. While visiting my daughter, her hubby and my grandson yesterday, my daughter said she wanted me to consider recording some children's songs (new and/or originals) to put on a CS to give to my grandson for his upcoming birthday (he turns 2 in mid=September). She pointed out that he likes music and it would be something he could keep for a long, long time...(not that I needed another excuse to play and record).
I think it is a terrific idea and believe I even saw some 'Children's Styles' while recently perusing the BIB Style library. Could probably find some cool animal sound effects and other stuff to throw into the effort too...This should be fun!
Hope everyone is having a great day!
Living in The Music City
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Mike,
Good job! I agree, it does have a Neil Young feel to it (which I like). Keep up the good work!
Steve
Steve Young Music"In order to compose, all you need to do is remember a tune that nobody else has thought of." - Robert Schumann
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Great Job Mike, thanks for sharing!
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