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Quote:
but I DIDN'T forbidhis opinion....
I wasn't talking about you personally.
Quote:
1st amendment rights aren't the point of this discussion.
I guess we will have to disagree on that point.
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Quote:
Quote:
1st amendment rights aren't the point of this discussion.
I guess we will have to disagree on that point.
Kevin,
are you suggesting that you understand what I was trying to say better than I do? The speaker is the one who defines his own intent, not the listener.
If I was talking about 1st amendment rights, why would I mention North Korea? They have no investment in the American constitution. But they have people and they have oppression. Sentient people should be able to learn from other peoples' mistakes. Or not.
It has been said that a wise man can avoid trouble by learning from the mistakes of others
an average man learns from his own mistakes
and a fool keeps making the same mistakes over and over without learning a thing.
Discussion helps us to see what others have learned. Resistance to discussion is not the tendency of the wise. What observation would complete that analogy?
I like you a lot Kevin. It really grieves me that I seem to have rubbed you the wrong way. Please believe that is not my intent. This is a topic about which I have very passionate stance. I'm not arguing with you as much as I am arguing a certain mindset that I do not want to see spread and become mainstream. (it may already be too late) The removal of personal freedoms IN ANY SOCIETY happens gradually, with a bunch of small losses along the way.
A very large boulder can be moved by gradually removing one piece of supporting sand at a time. And liberty works the same way... not just here, but everywhere.
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Quote:
...The speaker is the one who defines his own intent, not the listener...
The listener gets to decide what the intent of the received message is, not the speaker. Once the words have left his mouth or pen (or keyboard), the listener is then in control of the message's interpretation.
I am not mad or upset at anyone. I was just defending the right (actually a privilege here) of hawgly to state that he didn't think this song belonged here. On another forum (another music one, too!) a discussion was going on about Aurora and 2nd amendment rights. A canadian and Scot were blasting the US for having the right to bear arms, but not having the "right" to universal health care. I tried to explain that a right is something that is natural and can be taken away from you by government (mankind has "armed" themselves from before the caveman days), but that healthcare was a benefit from society that you have to pay for (somehow). But like all political discussions, no one's mind actually gets changed so it is starts to become a time-waster.
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Time to just ignore this thread and let it die. This is a music forum.
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Where is the song? No song, so no idea what's going on! 
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It was an attempt to be somewhat humorous in commenting on the shootings based on the foregone conclusion that the nutbar is going to be found guilty and either get the death penalty or rot in prison until the other inmates remove him.
However, it was in such bad taste even I was offended, and that is really hard to do. It somehow turned into a debate about the 1st amendment, and these two both have to get the last word. I wrote to PG twice asking them to just delete the whole thread but obviously they have not. If everybody would just agree to stop throwing gas on this fire it would just burn out, but that has not happened.
This is a music system. Unwrap yourselves from the flag and leave the Constitution, along with the misguided notion that the 1st Amendment means you can say ANYTHING you want to (which is incorrect), out of it. The discussion about the actual song was over quickly, as it was awful anyway.
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Quote:
Quote:
...The speaker is the one who defines his own intent, not the listener...
The listener gets to decide what the intent of the received message is, not the speaker. Once the words have left his mouth or pen (or keyboard), the listener is then in control of the message's interpretation.
I agree completely that the listener has power to interpret a message... my point is that real communication has not occurred unless the message received is the same as the message that was intended. If the listener gets a different meaning than the speaker intended, one of 3 things is true:
1) the speaker is not a good enough communicator to get his point across
2) the listener is not a good enough communicator to understand the message
3) the listener purposefully twists the message into a straw man argument.
Quote:
I am not mad or upset at anyone. I was just defending the right (actually a privilege here) of hawgly to state that he didn't think this song belonged here.
I agree with that statement 100%. If you read the whole thread before commenting you would already know that I said the same thing earlier.
Quote:
On another forum (another music one, too!) a discussion was going on about Aurora and 2nd amendment rights. A canadian and Scot were blasting the US for having the right to bear arms, but not having the "right" to universal health care. I tried to explain that a right is something that is natural and can be taken away from you by government (mankind has "armed" themselves from before the caveman days), but that healthcare was a benefit from society that you have to pay for (somehow). But like all political discussions, no one's mind actually gets changed so it is starts to become a time-waster.
I think there's value in speaking even when it seems that nobody is listening. SOMEBODY listening from the sidelines will remember what was said, and his or her life may take a completely different direction as the result of a word fitly spoken. The minds at stake in such discussions are usually those of the listeners, not of the speakers.
Peace, Kevin. I have been an admirer of your songs since long before I saw you here on the forum. I saw your songs on song ramp first. Your taste in music is very similar to mine.
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Hey Guys... I apologize once again for causing such a 'stir' and I hope there are no ongoing hard feelings. I do admit the error in my judgement in posting the song here. I am not the kind of person who looks for attention or controversy, and being new around these parts, I don't want to give anyone the wrong impressions of who I am. The song was created somewhat out of anger - as I watched the horrific heartbreak of those family members and loved ones dealing with their own personal situations. I cannot even begin to fathom what that must be like for those people. I'm sure everyone one on this board feels similar types of emotions. It is certainly a complex situation for all of us to deal with... Putting all that aside, though, I still want to be part of this forum. I considered dropping out altogether, in the wake of the firestorm caused by my song. But, I realize that I like it here. I have much to learn about music and songwriting, it is very much a passion, and here I have found folks who share that passion who I can learn from. Talented, friendly folks as well! Perhaps I can help others too.  Discussions about Rights of Free Speech? I think those are important discussions to have, but perhaps there should be a thread over in the Off Topic area. That might solve some of the issue..... The controversial song was, I assure you, an aberration for me. I promise not to be a lightning rod for division amongst the members of this fine group. In the words of Rodney King - "Can't we all just get along"?
Living in The Music City
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Mike, Quote:
I considered dropping out altogether, in the wake of the firestorm caused by my song.
2 main points.
1} It wasn’t a firestorm, … just some minor debate. Nothing to be concerned about. It happens around here sometimes and it’s no big deal.
2} It wasn’t caused by your song. (Note: see edit on next post.)
There’s NO reason for you to leave the forums. The PG forums are great and if you see a discussion going on that you don’t want to be a part of, just ignore them, (although sometimes you may want to just watch for the entertainment value). 
Anytime you have human beings involved …… there will be debates, misunderstandings and occasionally tempers will flare. It all works out in the long run.
In general it’s very civil and enlightening. Welcome to the forums.
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Edit: As a side note, ... just based on the title of the song, ...... , what were you thinking???!!! A song like that isn't something you should ever bother recording, ...... much less post on a music form. It would be better left on a note pad in the bottom of a box in a storage bin!!! At best, it would only be something where you might pull out your mandolin and play it for your drunk friends on a Saturday night! JMHO. LOL. 
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Quote:
At best, it would only be something where you might pull out your mandolin and play it for your drunk friends on a Saturday night!
JMHO.
LOL.
That's what I thought I was doing (without the mando) 
Living in The Music City
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Journeyman
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Yea...who knew there were so many drunks on here! (BURP!)
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