PG Music Home Forums General Discussion User Showcase newbie going "Out On A Limb"

Wow! You had great insight, production, and lyrical skills way back then too, eh, Floyd! Have you pitched any of your tunes over the years and, if so, have you had any success with others artists recording them? If not you should...and they should!!

Dear Mr. Jane,

I am so sorry to have to listen to your first song here and report this:

Even if they were to invent a version of this "Band in a Box" with 9,000 styles, I am afraid you would just not find any listeners for this type of thing.

Nor do I really see any hope for you here on this forum, where the most successful people around here reside on the OFF TOPIC forums talking about their memory sticks and RAM--you know, the important stuff.

Yes, the cheerful, quaint and happy tone of this has no place in the world of modern music and I am afraid you do not have a prayer around here, Mr. Floyd, I mean Mr. Jane.

My best advice to you is this:

Please climb down off that limb and give up while you still can.

Floyd...great song...great hook...11 years have passed...you had "it" then and you have "it" now...the limb you climbed out on is still strong and growing...I've never heard a bad or even mediocre production from you...glad you found BiaB and I bet the BiaB folks are glad too!

I wonder the same thing every time I hear one of your tunes.

Floyd ...

I remember a few months back when I posted a song of the same name, you mentioned your very first post on this forum was entitled "Out On A Limb". I am so dang happy to finally hear it. And what a great song.

Ya know, I believe we're all born with a certain set of skills and talents. What makes the difference is which of us discover those skills and develop them for the benefits they provide. In this case, the benefit is the great enjoyment the rest of us get from your efforts and willingness to share. That said, only a small percent of us hone those skills to your level. This song perfectly defines my thoughts about all that.

I'll close with a sincere thank you for the treasured enjoyment your music has brought me and the help you offer to others to improve their skills.

I'm here only because you heard one of my songs on another board (you know - that other one!) and invited me to join this group. I'm not sure I've ever received a more rewarding invitation.

And thank you for the grace you bring to this forum.

Alan and Di

Deleted - double post. Sorry!

History - a song about a limb that sets a bar.

Thanks so much to whomever brought this gem back from the past. Floyd, I was quite excited thinking that maybe --just maybe- I'll finally hear one of yours that wasn't as amazing as every other one I've heard. Dang! Still no proof that you're actually human. One question: Did you come from the same planet as Paul McCartney and Danny Gatton? Out on a limb, eh? I'd say that is a pretty sturdy limb there fella. Although I too have had this software since the floppy days, I've never heard it put to better use. Thank you!!

FJ,
That was one excellent first post! Glad somebody bumped it. Don't know if this was updated in any way from initial release, but sounds amazing as is. Easy listen and thank you for being here!

Misha.

It has FJ printed all over it.
Like a Johnny Cash song, we can tell an FJ one straight out of the box
Keep it up, Floyd.

Vic

Floyd,

I can't believe I missed this one all those years ago... It's just great and a window into what we would hear from you in the future.

Bob

It is always nice when an old song pops up again because someone finds it buried somewhere and decides to comment.
It is Truly appreciated.

Usually, I don't respond (to an old song) and just let 'em slide back to oblivion.
But I DO appreciate the effort.

In this case, since it was my first post in these forums, and several people (who had not heard it 11 years ago) left some very nice comments and a few interesting questions...
I decided to respond here and perhaps tell a story or two...

This forum is a remarkable place. There are a number of people who were here long before I was and are still here.
It is a magical place.
(as long as you stay away from the few contentious posts that get completely out-of-hand...)



A quick note: I re-coded the web page to use the current HTML audio player. The old player that I had coded disappeared on my phone when I tried it...

Here is a better link if you had any trouble with the original
http://www.floydjane.com/Songs/Limb.htm


PS. I have a lot of catching up to do - and I will... MAN! you go away for a week and you miss SO much...

Hey, you're only off by a number or 2


For your lips to...


I'm writing this all down


Dang! I already listened to Every major (and many minor) release for the last 2 years!!!



Stirring the pot, once again, eh?
THANK YOU!

Dewey - Thanks! - I'll answer your question when I get to Dan's (firesong) post since he asked, too...

Dear Mr. Snide-r (did you see what I did there?)

I've been beat up a lot worse than this. Plenty of times. Sticks And Stones. Water off a writer's back. I tried the Off Topic thing. They just want to insist that everyone has to READ music. But they never seem to actually MAKE any music. Oh well. Different Strokes.

First, I like the song. I did not get here till 2015, so I never had a chance to listen.

You always do first-class stuff no matter what David says...lol

We can always use a bit of the past here. The time here is growing shorter by the day for all of us. Perhaps a lot shorter for some of us.

Thanks to whoever brought this song back to life.

Cheers,

Billy

Dewey and Dan (That would make a great name for a duo!)

Since you both asked, I thought I'd tell you a few stories.
I don't normally do that here unless it is specific to the song. There are plenty of folks who re-tell their 40-year-old glory-days-stories (over and over).
I choose to present my work and let folks form their own opinions, glory or gory.
A few here have heard some (or many) of these stories - because they have become friends through the years of emailing, phone calls, face-to-face, writing together, singing together, talking music for hours because it's what we all love. The forum is such a comfortable place - and has been for the entire time I've been here... nothing else like it. Home.
This response will likely only be viewed by a few people because, after all, who's gonna come back for these responses after all this time? (hopefully the two of you, but, if not, so-be-it ). That's a good thing. Buried here in my first post

Yes, I have had my songs pitched. I didn't pitch 'em. The publishers did. They included the biggest publishers in the business - pitched to the biggest names in the business. Several of my co-writers were big names in the business. Needless to say, that helps (or you might say more than helps), but that doesn't happen unless you are capable of doing the work to get into that position. Part of "doing the work" is developing your craft to the point that you are accepted into situations that lead you where you need/want to be. (Dan - I always wonder if you were pitching to Christian Country artists in the 70's and 80's - because you have the chops)
Success? I wouldn't call it that. (Though closer than most folk ever get).
Still... near misses for the most part (or the whole part).

I lived in Nashville for 15 years. And...yes...We sold our house, packed up everything and headed to Nashville on a wing and a prayer. No jobs lined up. And the flimsiest of chances.
I had made a trip to Nashville about 9 months prior to that. 4 days, 4 songs on a cassette tape. Recorded on a 4-track Tascam cassette recorder (hey, it was good enough for Springsteen). No appointments. And, here is how naive (stupid) I was at the time - I went from Friday to Monday (drove from St. Louis). If it's not obvious why that is stupid, well then...
At the time, I subscribed to a new songwriter's magazine (a charter member! I believe it was called "SongCrafter") that had offices on the Row (The UA Tower, then). I dropped in. The guy who ran it (I doubt there were more than 2 or 3 people who worked there) was willing to listen. 1992 - by then you couldn't "drop in" ANYWHERE in Nashville. So this was no big-time magazine. BUT...he sent me upstairs to a publisher in the building (this story is already getting too long and will only get longer. One of the reasons I keep my stories to 3-minutes with music). Don Somebody (I don't recall his last name, but I have it buried somewhere on a contract - memorabilia). Anyway...he listened to my 4 songs. And printed out single-song contracts for 3 of them (on a dot-matrix printer). I didn't sign them - I'd get back to him later. The following day (night) I went to try to see the show at the Bluebird. While waiting (an hour before the first show) I met a woman who claimed to be a publisher. She was willing to listen. Had an office BELOW THE BLUEBIRD. How could THAT not be Big Time? We went to office, she listened and wanted to sign the 4th song!! (wasn't interested in the other 3) Also printed off a single song contract. didn't sign that either (though I would later sign that one and send it to her). If you look back, I likely told this story when I posted it here (Praying For Rain).
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=462314#Post462314
That was my only trip there. Until I lost my job (a big-time sales job in real-time computers at the end of big-time computers). SO... I figured that Nashville was just sitting there waiting for me to show up so we could carry on from where we left it.
I can see this is turning into a book. But I've started...
An aside: The FIRST song I heard at a writers night (at a run-down club in Hendersonville owned by legendary bluegrasser Bill Monroe) was "Don't Take The Girl" (this was a few weeks before it was released to radio).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vn6QdqxK3g
Craig Martin (one of the writers) could tear your heart out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYSP5zyRYJk&t=50s
His next number was “What Will You Do With M-E”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ5upzBuF3M

And I thought "Oh. My. God. WHAT have I DONE?" I moved my family here!!!

At the time, there were hundreds (or thousands) of wannabes flooding into Nashville every week. Most don't have a chance-in-hell. The majority go home (don't sell your house, fergodsakes!!) when the money runs out in a few weeks or months. Few are really good enough to make it - but they will blame "the system" or "the gate keepers" (a truly stupid term - there are no "gate keepers"...simply publishers who need Great songs and know where most of those are going to come from). Makes for a good story back home.

My craft was fairly decent (opinion, of course - again you can judge for yourself - I've posted pre-90's song here - they haven't change since they were written), but I lacked the Polished Commercial side - the thing that makes a song really "pop" and be Radio-worthy. I knew I had to work on it and figure it out myself. Writing every day, alone or with co-writers. Writers nights most nights (far too many Bud Lights along the way). Personally, I believe that the number one MUST in getting better as a writer is Knowing You Aren't Good Enough. That is not an easy thing. Because most people think they ARE good enough. They won't get any better (why mess with something when you are already good at?). I likely thought that the day I walked into town. It took about a WEEK for me to figure out - "I gotta get a whole lot better!"

Over time, I developed (as good a word as any). As I got stronger, my co-writers got stronger (meaning the people who were willing to write with me were at a higher level). Established writers (with #1 songs) heard me at a writers night (Douglas Corner and The Bluebird Cafe were good for me), and invited me to write with them. Some of those songs started getting published and pitched. A couple of those writers tried to help get me a deal by setting me up with meeting with publishers they knew. Danny Mayo was very good to me and got me into several. He also introduced me to other writers in an attempt to get them to write with me. One of those was his daughter Aimee, who was just getting started at the time. We talked briefly about getting together, but I never followed up. One of my truly big idiot moves. Aimee went on to be a bigger name than her dad. That reminds of my one "star-struck" moment... Danny called me to come to his office to write with he and Bucky Jones. After introducing me to Bucky, he took me to the office next his and introduced me to Bob McDill and Dickey Lee. Then he took me to the office on the other side of him and introduced me to Dan (Sometimes When We Touch) Hill. All these MegaStar Songwriters - and me. How'd I get here? Talk about being humbled... I could barely breathe. (I also met Harlan Howard the one time I wrote with Rory Feek. I figured while I was name-dropping, I ought to drop The Biggest). I would imagine that Roger Brown - who haunts these forum on occassion - knew all these guys and was friends with several. I just met them in passing.
Another aside: At one of the first publisher meetings I had (like a "for real" publisher - maybe 2 years into my "journey") I was told "these are close" as I was handed back my cassette. That was all. Intended as the close of the meeting. But I asked "Can you tell me what is lacking? What needs improving?" And she said "That's not my job. That's your job." That was the last time I asked. Knowing You Aren't Good Enough should be all the motivation you need.
Which reminds me of another "aside": When I was new in town, very green, I was at a tile store - a small showroom kind of place with a seating area for perusing catalogs - when Trace Adkins walked in and sat down. I, of course, had a cassette of my latest batch of "bests" and waved it at him and asked if he would take it and listen. He got so PISSED I thought he was gonna slug me (I'm sure one punch would be all he needed. He is a Big man)). I never tried that again. The ultimate Nashville No-No. Ya Live Ya Learn (well, there was an exception - when Mila Mason ran into the back of my truck - because she was reaching down to pick up a tape of songs that she was listening to for her next one).

This is years in the making. You eat, sleep, drink, dream Songwriting.
About 6 years in (there is a reason they call it a 10-year town), I played Steven Farmer's night at The Commodore (an "invited" writers nights. Most were just-sign-up, but Steven made you "audition" at the end of the night (late) before he'd give you a spot) and Ralph Murphy was the featured writer (Steven often had a "name" as the feature). You likely know Ralph's name. He lectured all over the world on "how to write hit songs" (some are on YouTube). At the time he was a VP at ASCAP. As I walked back to my seat after playing my 3 songs, Ralph stopped me and asked "What's happening with your music?" I literally just looked at him and laughed. He immediately knew what that meant and said "Call my office and let's see what we can do". I told him I was signed with BMI (who, btw, never did anything for me - got a few stories about that, too) and he said "I don't care about that".
The first time I saw him (his office), after 3 songs, he picked up the phone and called Sony. And got me an appointment with a writer's rep (John. Can't recall his last name, but I think he went on to bigger things at Sony). And he called Almo-Irving. And another (don't recall, but similar). Those meetings stretched out over about a month and when nothing got going, Ralph set me up with some more (about a month later). We did this a few times. After about 6 months (a lot of down time, here), a meeting with HoriPro Entertainment Group paid off.
https://musicrow.com/2019/03/mojo-music-acquires-nashvilles-horipro-entertainment-group/
I was offered a one-year staff writing contract. Needless to say, I was to-the-moon.

A whole bunch of things happened next which caused this moment to stretch out too long (3 months, in fact).
I should have just signed the contact that day and been done with it. I could have at least said "I had a staff job." It was a fairly standard first-timer contract, certainly nothing nefarious. (Big writers with Big Hits can negotiate for better terms. A newbie? Just sign the damn thing)
They told me to have someone (a music lawyer) look it over if I wanted and bring it back when I signed it.
Tony Lane (who I had known since we both came to town 6 years prior) had just gotten his first staff job, so I asked him who he used. I took it to them. (Tony went on to have a very successful writing career - find his record and listen - you'll understand why). Back to the lawyers - They'd get to it when they could. I called back 2 weeks later and the guy had just left on vacation. When he was supposed to be back, I called and he was out-of-town on business. I ended up picking the contract up without them doing anything. When I called HoriPro, the guy I was working with was out-of-town-on-business. One thing after another and when I finally got back in (3 months later) to turn in the signed contract, they had decided to "hold off for a while". I was welcome to come hang out and write with their writers and "we'll see where that goes". There were internal politics of some kind going on and I got caught in the middle (best I know).
I was crushed.
Took some time off to try to gather myself.
I quit going to writers night. I quit making appointments to write. We were building a house in the country so I spent all my time working on that. I stopped listening to radio. (I had listened to nothing but Top-40 Country every day all day).
I did not pick up my guitar. Got a "real" job.
Turned out that lasted 10 years (no guitar. no radio. no music)
Then, one day I started writing again. Then I found (the new) BIAB. Haven't looked back since. (and I don't intend to tell this story again).

These are tid-bits. Small moments over a long period. There are a lot of stories, but in the end they are just more near-misses.
When I had the meeting at Sony, "One More Star"
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=256714#Post256714
was on the tape. My home production (before the marvel of BIAB) included a drum track that I pieced together from a CD of drum passages. John (the rep) had apparently been a drummer, so he hated my drum track. But he liked the song and thought it would be a fit for Diamond Rio - who was in the studio recording at the time. He asked if I could get rid of the drum track so that he could take it to them in the studio. Of course, I got him a re-mix the next day. What happened after that, I have no idea. Would have been uncool to ask (or bug him further - I had gotten smarter). And here is another weirdly cool thing. He said I'd "get lost" there because they had 125 signed writers. Big ones. So he called Clay Bradley at EMI (a smaller publisher - they had about a dozen writers, I think) and said "I've got a guy in my office you ought to hear" - and got me an appointment with another publisher! In that meeting...Clay was receptive to my songs (he particularly like "Rev. Bob"),
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=219927#Post219927
but said he only had one opening at the time and was looking for an edgy female perspective. "And, besides" he said "you write a lot like Mark Sanders. And Mark already works for us." A high praise rejection. That was new. Don't know if any of that was true ('cause what publisher wouldn't want 2 Mark D. Sanders?), but it all sounded good. Clay was my BMI rep when I signed there when I got to town. He hadn't even given me encouragement in my first BMI meeting (I'm sure he did not remember me from then). SO, it was another surprise when he picked up the phone and called Harry at BMG (it might have been Harvey - I should remember his last name. He was a long establish Nashville big wig) and said "I've got a guy in my office you should hear"... and arrange an appointment for me at BMG (similar results in the end).
Even with the rejection, I had a sense of "validation" having been from Ralph to John to Clay to Harry - based on each of their recommendations)

I had songs published and pitched by the biggest publishers in the business - Sony, BMG, Almo-Irving, Millhouse (and a few others).
I had some holds. Most were fleeting. Very short holds. A long hold, I talked about the one that got recorded then drop (Two Left Feet).
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=744800#Post744800

I had some independent cuts. Three of my co-writers put out records (which at that time was a pretty expensive thing to do - nothing like now). I had 5-6 co-writes on each of those (which, of course, means nothing), but one - which was produced by Clay Mills - was picked up by a German record company. They released several singles from it. Two of them (my writes) reached #2 on the European Independent Chart (who knew there was such a thing?). One of them was kept out of the #1 spot by a Earl Thomas Conley independent cut. I made close to 2 grand in air-play royalties. Chicken feed compared to what a hit on the US charts would bring. (example - Craig Martin and Larry Johnson who I knew, casually, from that fateful day I walked into The Bell Cove and heard "Don't Take The Girl" each made $600K on that song. And then blew through it as quickly as they made it).
I'm rambling, I know. It was all a long time ago and my memory has aged just as much as I have (maybe more), so there is lot I don't recall. I don't regret for one second having made the attempt. Good memories (the ones still left), no sour grapes.
I believe that I got to experience The Golden Age of Nashville Songwriting along with a number of folks who were a real part of it. A magical time. One that will likely never happen again. I count myself lucky.

Near-misses. A euphemism for "failure".
When all is said and done... That and a buck will get ya a cup of coffee.

Thanks, Alan. I'm glad you are here, too...

A good line. Songwriter.

Marty - you do the Best reviews!! Thanks for ALL your support over these many songs. It was a good day when you joined us on this journey....

Floyd,

Those stories are awesome. I enjoyed reading every word. You should write a book.

Bob