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Re: String Libraries dcuny #172214 09/06/12 04:53 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,353 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,353 Hamlin NY	Quote: I appreciate the offer, but.. I spent about 4 hours tweaking the MIDI in Reaper to get different articulations and velocity settings. I modified a number of the lines so they were a bit more typical of a violin, such as adding the scale runs, so it's no longer a BiaB file. It was a great learning experience for me, but I'd hate to have someone else spend that kind of time on a demo that isn't very awesome to start with. David, could you send me the midi file of the violin. I may be able to show you how a couple of my violin sounds without a lot of modification. I think my wife has started to show the first signs of dementia. She said she can't remember what she ever saw in me! 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: String Libraries dcuny #172215 09/06/12 06:59 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,823 Pensacola, Florida jford Veteran
jford Veteran Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,823 Pensacola, Florida	Hi, David - I liked what you did with the solo violin demo, but my problem with it was that depending on the notes being played, it ping-ponged back and forth between the left and right channels. I think it would have been more realistic for the piano to be stereo, but the violin dead center. Just a thought. John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)

Re: String Libraries jford #172216 09/07/12 12:13 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California dcuny OP Veteran
OP dcuny Veteran Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California	I agree - it's pretty distracting to hear the instrument go from ear to ear. I'd intended to make the violin mono, but wasn't sure how to go about doing it. I'll correct that at some point. Thanks! -- David Cuny My virtual singer development blog Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing? BiaB 2025 \| Windows 11 \| Reaper \| Way too many VSTis.

Re: String Libraries dcuny #172217 09/09/12 11:55 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California dcuny OP Veteran
OP dcuny Veteran Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California	I've redone the Miroslav solo violin demo. I've added a couple more articulations, made the violin track monophonic, and added a bit of reverb: Miroslav Philharmonilk Solo Violin Test. I'm still up in the air about the instrument... There are some nice sounds, but it seems to take a lot of work, and it still sounds patchwork in places. Feel free to voice any criticisms! One thing's for sure - if I'd known I'd end up spending this many hours on the demo, I'd have picked a better bit of music. I had a look at LA Scoring Strings First Chair ($300, Kontakt Player). I'd heard some great things about LASS, and this library offers the first chair instruments of the violin, viola, cello and bass. However, they're not "solo" instruments, but "first chair", so they're intended to blend in with the section. So they're a little bit more laid back, and not quite as expressive as a solo instrument. So while they're nice, I'm not sure I can justify spending that much... It's too bad the Garritan Stradivari Solo Violin is no longer available. No matter how which library you use, trying to get the right articulations is going to take a lot of time playing with MIDI data in a DAW... -- David Cuny My virtual singer development blog Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing? BiaB 2025 \| Windows 11 \| Reaper \| Way too many VSTis.

Re: String Libraries dcuny #172218 09/10/12 10:20 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,869 Bynar ZeroZero Expert
ZeroZero Expert Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,869 Bynar	"At this point, I'm mainly looking for a good solo violin. I should have included these libraries for completeness:" I have the Garritan Stradivarius here and its very good at what it does. I believe the package is now in the new Garritan Personal Orchestra. There was a Cello too the Gofrilla Ask in the GPO forums at Northern Sounds for more info: They are cheaper than the above Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k

Re: String Libraries MarioD #172219 09/10/12 10:53 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California dcuny OP Veteran
OP dcuny Veteran Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California	Quote: David, could you send me the midi file of the violin. I may be able to show you how a couple of my violin sounds without a lot of modification. Sorry, I missed your post. I'll try to post a MIDI file some time tonight. Thanks! -- David Cuny My virtual singer development blog Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing? BiaB 2025 \| Windows 11 \| Reaper \| Way too many VSTis.

Re: String Libraries ZeroZero #172220 09/10/12 11:58 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California dcuny OP Veteran
OP dcuny Veteran Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California	Quote: I have the Garritan Stradivarius here and its very good at what it does. I believe the package is now in the new Garritan Personal Orchestra. I've got GPO4 (actually, I just grabbed the 4.02 update this weekend). While the GPO solo violins are pretty good, they're different than the Garritan Stradivari Solo Violin (GSSV). Here's an excellent article that discusses the difference between them. As the above article notes, a lot of the features of the GSSV were brought about by patented phase-alignment techniques. Apparently there was a licensing dispute, and the end result is that Garritan no longer offers the GSSV. Sadly, neither does anyone else. Back in 2008, Garritan thought they would be able to come out with a comparable product in the near future. Apparently they lost their primary developer, and a replacement product has never happened. The folk who developed the GSSV went on to found SampleModeling and focus on brass instruments, and so GSSV has been in limbo ever since. Out of curiosity, how much "bite" does the GSSV have? Most of the demos I've been able to find are fairly mellow (like this). It reminds me a lot of the Quantum Leap Solo Violin (QLSV). I just listened to the QLSV demos again trying to convince myself that it sounds OK, but I'm just not sold... -- David Cuny My virtual singer development blog Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing? BiaB 2025 \| Windows 11 \| Reaper \| Way too many VSTis.

Re: String Libraries MarioD #172221 09/11/12 12:39 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California dcuny OP Veteran
OP dcuny Veteran Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California	Quote: David, could you send me the midi file of the violin. I may be able to show you how a couple of my violin sounds without a lot of modification. The track runs at 65 BPM. I had some difficulty exporting the .MID file from Reaper. I've stripped the pitch bends out, so it's pretty plain vanilla. The part is on MIDI channel 1. ViolinPart.mid PianoPart.mp3 Thanks! -- David Cuny My virtual singer development blog Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing? BiaB 2025 \| Windows 11 \| Reaper \| Way too many VSTis.

Re: String Libraries dcuny #172222 09/11/12 08:26 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,353 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,353 Hamlin NY	David, here are two examples of solo violins from Kirk Hunter’s Diamond Orchestra: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/97281321/romantic.mp3 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/97281321/Strat.mp3 The first is a solo romantic violin and the other is a solo stradivarius. The only thing I did with your midi file was to extend some notes so they would play legato. They were choppy as they were however I know each sound source is different thus you have to program midi differently for each one. I choose these two examples because they had built in vibrato. There are many articulations for each, including some no vibrato ones, but I thought that these sounded the best. You will note that some of the samples stop abruptly. With work this can be eliminate but I wanted to do as little work on your original midi file so you could hear the sound difference only. You can get some very convincing string parts if you take the time and use up and down strokes, a different sound source for each string part etc. Although this orchestra is a little on the expensive side but for me the bang for the buck well worth the extra money. Let me know what you think. edit - I should have pointed out that no effects were used on these sounds. They are straight out of the box sounds. With reverb and other effects these will more come to life. Last edited by MarioD; 09/11/12 08:29 AM. I think my wife has started to show the first signs of dementia. She said she can't remember what she ever saw in me! 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: String Libraries MarioD #172223 09/11/12 11:20 AM Off-Topic
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	So if you have more than one string library, are you a string librarian? And are your libraries on the Dewey decimal system? How does that work? Someone comes in looking for plucked strings and you ask your co-librarian "Dewey have anything in pizzicato?"

Re: String Libraries MarioD #172224 09/11/12 06:01 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California dcuny OP Veteran
OP dcuny Veteran Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California	Quote: David, here are two examples of solo violins from Kirk Hunter’s Diamond Orchestra: Thanks, that helps a lot! I really like the sound of the "Romantic" violin. The "Stradivarius" is a bit too nasal for my taste, but it also sounds quite good. Unfortunately, both the Diamond and Solo Strings 1 require the full version of Kontakt, which I haven't got. It's too bad, because the Solo Strings 1 has both of those violins in it. So I guess it's between Pop/Rock Strings or LA Scoring Strings First Chair (assuming I can cough up enough money for LASS). -- David Cuny My virtual singer development blog Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing? BiaB 2025 \| Windows 11 \| Reaper \| Way too many VSTis.

Re: String Libraries dcuny #172225 09/12/12 10:27 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,353 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,353 Hamlin NY	Hi David, here are two more solo string examples: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/97281321/solo%20strings-kontakt.mp3 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/97281321/solo%20violin-kontakt.mp3 These are directly from Kontakt’s VSL Orchestra sounds. Again no effects or modification to your midi file was made, thus these are just for sound comparison. It should be noted that both Kontakt and Diamond Orchestra’s have setting that will change the sound of the strings. Things like mellower or less nasally can be accomplished. These are not key switches but adjustments that can be made to the sound. You can use key switches just like normally after you adjust the sound to your liking. You can also set the patch for legato, which I forgot to do on these examples. I’m in a rush so I can’t show you those sound adjustments now. However if you are interested I may be able to find the time this weekend. I hope these examples help. I think my wife has started to show the first signs of dementia. She said she can't remember what she ever saw in me! 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: String Libraries MarioD #172226 09/12/12 03:04 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California dcuny OP Veteran
OP dcuny Veteran Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California	Thanks! Despite the timing differences (sorry about not matching the files up better), it gives a good feel for what the libraries offer. However, since both libraries requires Kontakt full, neither of them are options at the moment. -- David Cuny My virtual singer development blog Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing? BiaB 2025 \| Windows 11 \| Reaper \| Way too many VSTis.

Re: String Libraries dcuny #172227 09/12/12 05:13 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,823 Pensacola, Florida jford Veteran
jford Veteran Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,823 Pensacola, Florida	David - I initially bought Komplete Elements and then just watched the sales. Eventually they had one where I could get Komplete 8 (full package) for $299. Later, on sale, I was able to upgrade to Komplete 8 Ultimate (full package on USB hard drive) for $292. In the end, I was able to get Komplete 8 Ultimate (which has almost everything NI has, software-wise) for about the cost of Komplete 8 Standard Bundle. This was over the course of about a year. The sales sneak up on you, though, and don't last very long. John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)

Re: String Libraries jford #172228 09/16/12 01:01 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California dcuny OP Veteran
OP dcuny Veteran Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California	I found a demo of Eleanor Rigby for both the Kirk Hunter library and LASS First Chair. If anyone's curious: Eleanor Rigby (Strings only) - Beatles Eleanor Rigby - Kirk Hunter Pop/Rock Strings / Concert Strings II Eleanor Rigby - LA Scoring Strings First Chair Although the Kirk Hunter demo is very good, the LASS FC cello the won me over in the end, so I ended up going with the LASS FC. Although the sound is quite good, the instruments really are "first chair", so there are a number of places where the it sounds like more than one string is being struck, a note is off pitch, or there's a scrape on the string. Edit: I believe the "doubled" note comes from the crossfading between the glissando and the target note, and not the actual sample itself. I suspect that the Kirk Hunter library would have been a bit simpler to use. LASS places different articulations on different channels instead of using key switches. Common articulations can be triggered by velocity, and volume is controlled by the mod wheel. So there's definitely a learning curve. Still, LASS FC has some very nice sounds, and that's what matters in the end. Last edited by dcuny; 09/16/12 08:23 AM. -- David Cuny My virtual singer development blog Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing? BiaB 2025 \| Windows 11 \| Reaper \| Way too many VSTis.

Re: String Libraries dcuny #172229 09/16/12 12:53 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 2,498 New Mexico Larry Kehl Veteran
Larry Kehl Veteran Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 2,498 New Mexico	I concur about the LASS sounding very, very good and I concur about that "glitch"/double note NOT being in the sample (we are talking about the one a few seconds into the intro aren't we?) but it also occurs in the FISRT supposedly "actual" Beatles string only version, as well as the 3rd post the LASS version so either: 1. Whoever produced the song using LASS in the 3rd post was meticulous to a OCD fault using post one as template, or 2. they are the SAME version of Eleanor Rigby with different mix levels, but using maybe an older version of LASS (1.5?) or recording quality (the first having a/the violin laying further down in the nix) or, 3. they use the same MIDI file but possible different string libraries. I need to go find my actual vinyl LP and listen hard to the intro to see if that double is there (I never noticed it before but …OK I'm back… To my ears (and vinyl requires picking up the tone arm and resetting and I hate doing that more than a few times) there are two distinct notes (no flubs, mis-bows, or mis-fingering in the original to my ears) starting on/near the last syllable of "people" - this can be confirmed on the iTunes store sample (under the Revolver album of the entire boxed set). So it is either 2 or 3. but not your point is it. LASS sounds good (just not sure for me it's double plus good (1984 speak)) I need to find that exact MIDI file and run it thourgh my HW synths and see what i can gin up. Larry Larry Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20

Re: String Libraries Larry Kehl #172230 09/17/12 12:24 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California dcuny OP Veteran
OP dcuny Veteran Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,149 Sacramento, California	I wasn't referring to the glitch in the demo, I was referring to the way LASS (and probably other libraries) handle glissandos. The glissando - the note sliding up to the target pitch - is cross-faded into the target note. During that time, the two samples overlap, and you can hear two distinct pitches. It's a bit irritating, but not a deal breaker. You're aware that Eleanor Rigby is actually a string octet, right? They recorded a string quartet twice. Here's something I put together with the LASS violin and BiaB: LASS FC Solo Violin I don't think it's a particularly good demo... I'm likely to nuke it in a couple days. But I think it shows the sounds I'm getting out of the library at the moment. My kids are complaining that it's making them seasick... -- David Cuny My virtual singer development blog Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing? BiaB 2025 \| Windows 11 \| Reaper \| Way too many VSTis.

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