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Song I am working on... on the 2 of every measure is a guitar scratch. When I play it as a SEQ song, those stabs stay right on pitch. When I merge to wav or save to compressed, by the end of the song they have drifted so bad they are almost on the 3.
Any suggestions? Remember, they are right on time as a SEQ.
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Don't know but you could record via the Soundcard -What you Hear
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The thing is that this is the only time this has ever happened. And read closely, as a sequence the timing is dead on. Only after sending it to wav does a timing glitch appear. The recording is not the issue. The merge to wav is. I have already tried pulling that track back in out of a save to individual wav files (I do that for every song. disc space is cheap. why not?). When I merge it to wav without that one track, it's fine. So tonight's mission is to record that track again and see what happens.
Very strange. 25-ish songs into Real Band and this is the first time I have had any timing problems after merging to wav. And they are both glaring and exponential. The song is 90 bars. The scratch guitar track starts at 9. By 21 it is becoming audibly off beat. By 50 it is very bad, and by 75 it has drifted almost a full beat. And with the tempo at 84bpm, it is really glaring.
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What are your render to .wav settings? Is it possible that the .wav of the guitar scratch somehow can't re-sample to whatever your final .wav render settings are set to?
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Is the scratch track the only "self" recorded track?The rest are midi or RTs?
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This one is 100% hand made. Down the list:
Drum machine
synth
bass
guitar
sax 1
sax 2
sax 3
sax 4
Rhodes 1
Rhodes 2
lead vocal
vocoder BGV
human BGV
guitar solo
Everything syncs perfect in RB, but using AUDIO ==> MERGE TO STEREO WAV that guitar track gets WAY out of sync after the 4:04 runtime, and the track is nothing more than a briskly struck chord on the 2 of each measure.
I did quantize that track to 1/4 note, but I also went back and got the version that was NOT quantized and it did the same thing.
The tracks that were done by Rog and emailed to me from England sync perfectly. One of the tracks done in the same room does not.
What is so strange to me is that inside the SEQ file, it's all good. And as I said earlier, I do this on EVERY song so I have individual tracks as wav, a merged track as wav, the seq file from RB and an MP3 at 44,100 @320 and 44,100 @128. This has never happened to me before.
Tonight I will record that guitar track again and see.
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Weird! If there is anyone who will bulldog this thing through however, it will be you!
-Scott
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I'd try a couple other things .. Sounds like a marker to me, but I've never been in deep enough to see how that is handled.
If you had a couple extra ticks highlited, and then cop/pasted into repitions I could see the track getting off over time. Or if the bitrate on that track was converted somewhere along the line.
First thing I'd try is to use 'Track - Consolidate track' after using 'select all' or highliting the whole track.(disk space is cheap). Make sure to include the whole track, even if you have to use From-Thru and set the end beyond the endpoint; I've seen this make a difference. Just as a weird problem with a particular file. Not dupe-able, but notable.
Then try merging it down to stereo wavefile, before saving; this consolidation process can't be undone later (once the file is saved) except to open the backup file. So it curbs further testing if saved at the wrong time.
I'd also consider a 'Save As' routine in case the original .seq file is corrupted (as you mentioned, disk space is cheap).
If either of the above work I can say I've seen it before, though under different circumstances.
Last edited by rharv; 10/03/12 03:54 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Quote:
I did quantize that track to 1/4 note, but I also went back and got the version that was NOT quantized and it did the same thing.
This is your issue.You can't quantize an audio track only midi.So by even trying to you screwed up your track.
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Im surprised that there is even an option to quantize an audio track. Is that really the case? I can understand a beat detect option so that time stretching has some reference points but quantizing an audio track is a new concept to me.
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Quote:
Im surprised that there is even an option to quantize an audio track. Is that really the case? I can understand a beat detect option so that time stretching has some reference points but quantizing an audio track is a new concept to me.
It's not part of RB for sure for audio BUT if you highlight an audio track and go to EDIT/Quantize it'll go through some sort of gyration.What should happen is some sort of error screen should come up saying "Can't quantize an audio track"
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That is likely it then. I selected whole track, hit quantize to 1/4 note hopeing to pull even the slightest deviation back into place, and said OK. It seemed to do something quick but I never saw an error message so I bet I stopped it too soon. Simple enough to record it again.
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Quote:
Im surprised that there is even an option to quantize an audio track. Is that really the case? I can understand a beat detect option so that time stretching has some reference points but quantizing an audio track is a new concept to me.
I do this in Reaper, where it is defined as such:
"Audio quantization is aligning the beats in an audio-item to a grid or to a predefined groove.
In Reaper this is actually item-quantization, as you can apply it to midi or audio-items. Note however, regarding midi you'd normally use midi notes quantization.
In other DAWs audio quantization are named e.g. Elastic Audio, Audio Quantize, Beat Detective and Time Warp."
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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In RB its called ACW ..
Maybe that quantize did do something to the file.Try to replicate it amd if it happens again you know the drill; get it to support so they know about it.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Deleted the track, played it back in, once again, just a quick staccato swipe of the strings on the 2 of every measure, and it seemed okay dry, but when I added effects it started to get off course, and by the end of the song (87 bars) it was off by almost a full beat. I erased the track. Recorded just 4 bars again. The first 4 were PERFECTLY in time. Selected the 4 bars with "snap" on checked the events and it was correctly the entire measure, no more or less, and pasted them. Once again, they were fine at first. I did not add effects and it stayed in time. However...
It sounds awful recording dry and not using effects, so as much as I hate it, I may have to plug up the old Line 6 and use the onboard effects to add the reverb tail and ton of high end EQ I want. I'll make it happen, but it's a drag that after finally listening to Scott and the others who steered me toward onboard and in the box mixing, now I have to go back to outboard analog stuff for this one track.
Now, as I am typing and thinking, I may have stumbled onto something. This is recorded in RB, but none if it IS from RB. The drums are nothing more than closed hat from my drum machine that was recorded while being driven by the MIDI clock in RB, and wood block played in manually from a synth. Then 2 tracks of Rhodes from 2 different patches. Then 4 layers of sax swells. Then vocals, then vocoder, then an imported fretless track and a BGV track. ALL lined up well until I played that guitar part in. So now I wonder, because there is no RB style involved for a timing "template", is this just drifting off because there is nothing holding it back?
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Quote:
Deleted the track, played it back in, once again, just a quick staccato swipe of the strings on the 2 of every measure, and it seemed okay dry, but when I added effects it started to get off course, and by the end of the song (87 bars) it was off by almost a full beat. I erased the track. Recorded just 4 bars again. The first 4 were PERFECTLY in time. Selected the 4 bars with "snap" on checked the events and it was correctly the entire measure, no more or less, and pasted them. Once again, they were fine at first. I did not add effects and it stayed in time. However...
It sounds awful recording dry and not using effects, so as much as I hate it, I may have to plug up the old Line 6 and use the onboard effects to add the reverb tail and ton of high end EQ I want. I'll make it happen, but it's a drag that after finally listening to Scott and the others who steered me toward onboard and in the box mixing, now I have to go back to outboard analog stuff for this one track.
Now, as I am typing and thinking, I may have stumbled onto something. This is recorded in RB, but none if it IS from RB. The drums are nothing more than closed hat from my drum machine that was recorded while being driven by the MIDI clock in RB, and wood block played in manually from a synth. Then 2 tracks of Rhodes from 2 different patches. Then 4 layers of sax swells. Then vocals, then vocoder, then an imported fretless track and a BGV track. ALL lined up well until I played that guitar part in. So now I wonder, because there is no RB style involved for a timing "template", is this just drifting off because there is nothing holding it back?
No
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Tonight's project is to push those tracks into Sonar and add the guitar track there and then compress. Very puzzling.....
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Now that you've given more of the story I think you have an audio latency issue with your effects and playback while recording that are causing the time misalignment. Using asio or not? Latency compensation handled or not?
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I agree in the theory that is the effects, but I record dry. Seems when I add the reverb and EQ and auto wah..... it.gets...con.....fused.........and.............loses...............sync.
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What reverb EQ and Auto-wah?
PGMusic?
What is your bitrate set at for audio? Did it change mid project?
Did you try Consolidating the Track(s) as I described earlier? This makes those tracks read straight thru as one chunk so repitions can't get out of time; no extra 'triggers' for each chunk of audio data as it all becomes one chunk.
This is a fix that works for a lot of weird issues and is worth trying.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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