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Joined: Oct 2012
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OP
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Hi,
It would be cool for BIAB and realband to be 64 bit.
Thanks, Neil
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Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Latest BIAB version, latest build.
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In layman's terms what would be the big advantage in 64-bit over 32-bit? Is it so big that this request should be pushed ahead of other development stuff? I ask this because I know that 32-bit is still going to work for quite a few years to come
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Journeyman
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Only real advantage is being able to access more than 3 gig RAM, and as BIAB/RB use disk streaming (AFAIK -but correct if wrong) there is no need for more than 3 gig of RAM, ergo no samples are loaded into RAM...additional RAM is wasted really, unless you want to multi-task a few other programs alongside BIAB.
Add to this PG would then need to licence a "Bit Bridge" program to run the 32 bit VSTs and VSTi's that will NOT run natively in 64 bit systems without one. Or write one themselves.
btw I do use a 64 bit system myself, so I understand where you are at on this.
Dennis
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Quote:
In layman's terms what would be the big advantage in 64-bit over 32-bit?
For example, being able to use 64 bits VST and VSTi plugins.
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Yes but remember you will 100% need a bit bridging program to run the existing 32 bit VST's in a 64 bit system....I really cannot see PG re-writing (as VST's cannot be "converted" -only run using an in-between app to convert in real-time) all their VST's and VSTi's just to run a 64 bit system...Mind you a licence fee for some of the commercial bit bridging apps would not be that costly per BIAB sale....
D
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Yes, but the thing is that they need to do that if they want to maintain their products up to date and competitive. Nearly all modern DAWs, VST and VSTi plugins are offered in 32 and 64 bits versions nowadays, and it's easy to see that 32 bits software will be obsolete in a near future.
Latest BIAB version, latest build.
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Journeyman
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Actually, there are far fewer 64 bit plugins than you might imagine, outside those that are bundled with DAW software. It is growing though.
Please don't misunderstand I am all in favour of 64 bit, I mean I use it myself..I am only pointing out that with BIAB as it stands there is no real need.
I agree it is where it is heading and PG are probably already WAY ahead of us LOL!!
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Quote:
... and it's easy to see that 32 bits software will be obsolete in a near future.
I don't see how this statement can be true. 32-bit applications will be not obsoleted until the advent of 128-bit OS's. I predict that 32-bit apps will be quite acceptable until 2015 and beyond. If all the best VSTI's go 64-bit, then that would be a good reason to change the BIAB to 64-bit.
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32 bits PCs are no longer for sale since quite a bit time. Using 64 bits hardware in music production software is important (among other reasons) because it allows using more than 3 mb of RAM, wich is a definitive reason for a lot of people involved in the computer music production area. Aditionally, modern VST and VSTi are real RAM and CPU eaters, and having an up to date hardware / software system is a need for most computer music producers.
Because of that, the 64 bits user base is growing everyday, while demand for 32 bits music software is decreasing day after day. And while every major music software company are still offering 64 and 32 (legacy) bits versions of their products, I predict that, sooner or later, they will stop developpong and supporting the legacy versions, simply because lack of demand for them.
Latest BIAB version, latest build.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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There are still a TON of 32-bit users out there who have 4GB and less of RAM and see no benefits to 64-bit. Microsoft should have drawn a line in the sand with Win 8 and produced only a 64-bit version. If users (and developers) have a choice they will seek the lowest common denominator.
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
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No need yet. Neither Band in a Box nor Real Band require a lot of memory. Both seem to require a lot of processor computing speed.
So far 64-bit software is there either for family compatibility (products of a suite that use the same libraries) or for usage of memory (working with moving images).
I can see that some software jumped up on the moving 64-bit-train without a need for the improvement at the current time. Using 64bit compilers does not necessarily involve rewriting code, event tho' it does in a few particular cases.
The major advantage of a 64-bit OS is the ability to address more than 4 GB of RAM. But: the Home edition of Windows 7 is limited to 4 GB of RAM. (Haven't checked W8, but I doubt that it behaves different than W7.)
The question is: How many BIAB users have more than 4 GB RAM in their computers and use a 64-bit OS beyond the Home edition?
I still run pieces of 16-bit software on my computer -- and it's main board is prepared to accept 32 GB. I still have no need to put more memory in than the 8 GB I have now.
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
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Quote:
But: the Home edition of Windows 7 is limited to 4 GB of RAM. (Haven't checked W8, but I doubt that it behaves different than W7.)
The question is: How many BIAB users have more than 4 GB RAM in their computers and use a 64-bit OS beyond the Home edition?
Sorry, but that's not true. As you can see here:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778(v=vs.85).aspx
The most basic of the windows 7 64 bits versions, supports a maximum of 8gb RAM, doubling the limit of the most advanced of the w7 32 bits edition (Windows 7 Ultimate), wich still is 4 gb.
Working with 32 bits systems is a serious limitation for any musician involved in computer music nowadays, and I am pretty sure that PG Music will offer 64 bits versions of their products in a near future.
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Quote:
There are still a TON of 32-bit users out there who have 4GB and less of RAM and see no benefits to 64-bit.
I am NOT trying to start a war but I have heard that before if you change 32 and 64 bit to either 8 and 16 bit or 16 and 32 bit. Eventually all software will be 64 bit. Most all DAWs and VSTs and VSTis are either now 64 bit or are working on 64 bit versions. That even includes Pro Tools! IMHO any company not working on a 64 bit version of their software will be left in the dust.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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PGMusic made the jump successfully from 16 to 32-bit, so I suspect they'll do the same for 32 to 64-bit. They have generally provided great backward compatibility, which to some may seem like not moving forward fast enough, but my guess is that in the next release or two, we will see (as most of the companies have done) both 32- and 64-bit versions of the software. I bet the real drop-dead date will be in 2014, when Microsoft ceases support of Windows XP, at which point there should be no reason to go 64-bit all the way.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Quote:
It would be cool for BIAB and realband to be 64 bit.
Why? Are you having problems with it?
I am running BiaB on Win7 Ultimate x64 with 6gb of memory and have had zero problems. I also run x32 versions of Reaper becasue of my investment in VST-VSTi plugins, some of which are buggie when using a bridge program, including jBridge.
x64 is only an advantage IF you have software to take advantage of it, and at this point there is not a lot out there, depending on what YOU need.
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Joined: Oct 2012
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OP
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I have no problem running BIAB in 64 bit Win 7 BUT I have to use it in a restricted way
64 bit Win 7 takes up a lot more RAM than Win 98, Vista XP or other 32 bit operating systems. So 32 bit BIAB has less available RAM in 64 bit Win 7 than in a 32 bit Win version.
No big deal if you run a it with a midi synth or some realtracks.
However, if you want to take advantage of the VST and VSTi availability there are real memory limitations. Some of my VSTi libraries are large and I don't have the available RAM to use.
i HAVE 24 gb Ram and I can't use it with a 32 bit application.
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Quote:
However, if you want to take advantage of the VST and VSTi availability there are real memory limitations. Some of my VSTi libraries are large and I don't have the available RAM to use.
That's true with any music DAW. Biab is NOT a DAW. It's a real time song generator and it has to make instrument patch changes on the fly in real time. No other music software does that. That means no matter how much ram you have, whether you're in 32 or 64 bit, it's all irrelevant to Biab. You could have a VSTi with a 1.2 gig piano sample for example. In the middle of the song that patch changes to a different 1 gig sample. No way does 64 bit or the amount of RAM make any difference is Biab being able to change patches in REAL TIME as the song is being generated. That's the difference between Biab and any DAW. DAW's are not generating parts for you. They are digital recorders so sure then having all that RAM to play multiple large VSTi's works. The thing is no matter how fast your system is, it's not an instant operation to have a patch change command load a 1 gig sample instrument and play it while the song is playing. If you're going to set each song up ahead of time with all the patches set into RAM maybe that would take advantage of 24 gigs of ram but nobody does that. As soon as you change styles, the whole mix changes. Yes 24 gigs is a lot but look at the total size of the big name VSTi sound libraries. Many hundreds of total gigs and that would all have to be loaded into ram in order for Biab to access all those different patches in real time. In a regular DAW, you stop the song, change the patch and wait while the plugin loads the sample, then you hit play.
Now, simply from a marketing and customer perception point of view it's probably good for them to have a 64 bit version but unless there's serious revisions to how the program works, and that may be happening for all I know, it's won't matter at all.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Sorry Bob
I beg to disagree. I run into severe memory limitations with 32 bit BIAB if I try to run some of my VSTi libraries that I do not have any problem with in Cubase 6.5.3, Maschine, Play or Ableton Live 64 bit beta.
Where did you get the idea that a VSTI library runs in realtime without any sample being resident in memory. This may be true for realtracks but not for VSTi libraries. Sure the memory footprint for Kontakt 5 is small but that is not true for many 64 bit VSTis.
regards, Neil
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