PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic STRICTLY an opinion question

Eddie, Interesting bucket list item. But doesn't it kind of cheapen the whole point of the bucket list item if you are just serving up same old same old for thumb in a hat and beautiful blond with a growl in her voice?

damn right Eddie! man I truly hope you get that big one and that stream too!!

I'm not close enough to radio to know this, but don't most stations have their music piped in from the mothership these days? Prepackaged DJs and such?

The topic reminds me of an old Willie Nelson tune from around '74. "Sad Songs and Waltzes ain't Selling this Year."

My advice, for whatever that is worth, is to REMAIN TRUE TO YOURSELF in your songwriting and production efforts and keep at it.


Write.

Make Demos.

Submit same.

Rinse and Repeat as often as possible.


--Mac

That is an interesting perspective, Mac, and I agree to a point, but the "thine own self be true" method has me sitting here at 61 with the bucket list growing instead of shrinking and that hasn't worked yet. I think by the time the shame of selling out would hit me, I'd be dead and wouldn't know anyway....

anyone who says they wouldn't "sell out" just hasn't had an offer yet!

I have found that there are many things more important in this life than mere fame and/or fortune.

Been around a few who had it but didn't seem all that happy about anything...


--Mac

All true, but I was more focused on giving Eddie my opinions on approaches to tackling this contemporary country/get on the radio thing. The comments on whether it is the right thing to do to be "happy" is another (important) philosophical discussion. Maybe it is the more important discussion, but dang, we are all different in what floats our boats.

Kevin has "hit the nail on the head".

To add to that... here are some things to consider...

There are dozens of publishers in Nashville who all employ staff writers. The "big" ones (Sony/Tree, Polygram, BMG to name a few) have 100-125 writers. The smaller ones may have 10-25. And, of course, everything in between. For argument sake, let's say there are 2000 staff writers in Nashville. They are ALL good writers. Most have been in Nashville for years learning and plying their craft. They write EVERY DAY. They may turn in 2-3 songs a week to their publisher (that's what they are paid for). The publisher decides what gets demoed. (Except for the really successful writers who have made enough money to demo everything they write). Those demos sound as good as anything you hear on the radio or on CDs. They pitch those songs for a few weeks and if no one picks up on them, they move on to next week's 4000 songs. There are, literally, hundreds of thousands of GREAT songs sitting on the shelves in Nashville that no one will ever hear.

There are, perhaps, 50 guys/gals in Nashville who make BIG bucks (we're talkiing millions). The ones getting 3 or 4 cuts a year. Sometimes more. The artists (producers) keep going back to them because they know how to write hits - and that's what everyone is looking for. There are, maybe, another 150-200 writers who actually "make a living" writing (a cut here and there). The other 1800 are still looking for that first cut. There are only so many "slots" per year. If there are 100 (viable) releases a year with 12 songs apiece, that's 1200 "slots". Some percentage of those are written by the artist themselves (Brad Paisley, Keith Urban types). Those 50 "big name writers" get their share and the number of slots goes down real fast.

It can take years to "develop relationships" needed, or to "get noticed". Tony Lane knocked around Nashville for 5-6 years (writing daily, playing at writer's nights several times a week) before "the big boys picked up on him" and started writing with him. Once he "hit" he got dozens of cuts (several #1's).

Nashville publishers don't have time to "deal with" outsiders. Nor do they need to. If you're good enough to "make it" in Nashville as a writer, you're probably already there. At any one time there are (at least) another 5000 people in Nashville "trying to find their way in". Most don't stay long. Some do. A few make it. But not many.

All that being said.... there is always hope. Tom Douglas "did the Nashville thing" and then went back home (Texas, I believe). At a "pitch a publisher" night at a local songwiter's organization, he manage to "get noticed", got a #1 with Collin Raye and went on to a very successful Nashville career.

Never give up.

I'm not surprised by that... the "scenario" I described was actually 10 years ago. The scenario still applies - it's just a smaller pie...

Please understand my comments weren't against approaching music as a business.

There are decisions and choices to be made all up and down the line. I was trying to rationalize the thumb in hats and beautiful blonde comments with the idea of a bucket list item.

I think that TAXI kind of route is likely a must-do attempt to accomplish the 'hit' song requirement. Some type of representation and 'people' working for you, just a little bit, is likely necessary to break through.

Either that, or a very savvy social media capability. I've talked here about Tyler Ward - who now has international fame and fortune - which really started with him doing better Taylor Swift covers than Nashville was able to do with Taylor Swift herself. Tyler did them out of his basement studio here in CO. He put these up on YouTube, paid appropriate attention to licensing/royalties and what not, and now he has over a million YouTube subscribers, with over 300 million views on YouTube. Yes, 300 million views. I know Tyler pretty well from right before he started to take off on YouTube. When I would see him regularly, it was when he had perhaps 5,000 subscribers to his YouTube channel - pretty much local here in CO.

Tyler knows how to really connect with the on-line audience, globally, via social media. He has also done a great job pulling other people along in his rather rapid rise to this certain kind of fame. He's also really good at DIY music/video - again, his covers of pop songs are arguably better than what the big studios cranked out. He has been able to pretty much control his destiny - still not signed, but not for want of record companies pounding down his door. He's in control of his own gig. Record contracts are a bit irrelevant in his situation. So, social media is another way to fame, that is less dependent on the Nashville, NY or LA machine.

Or just plain dumb luck.

Imagine this scenario.

There's a kid named Clem. He can sing. I mean REALLY sing. Clem isn't on a label yet because he can't get a good listen from anybody who can get him there. Clem spends his days singing a capella as he walks along the streets of Nashville collecting aluminum cans to recycle so he can come up with a buck to buy a newspaper to take back to the dumpster he lives in to look at later, after he practices his guitar for a few hours, so he can try and find a job at a fast food joint or convenience store. Clem knows if he can just get enough money together to make a decent demo he has a shot at making it. Clem also knows he needs a quality song to record on that demo and becasue he is not yet inside the walls of the forbidden city he has no shot at having a music publisher refer him to a professional writing team to get that one good song.

I want to meet Clem. That's who I need. Clem.

I have NO desire, intention, aspiration.... to try and become a "songwriters stable member" for a label. I want to hear one song I wrote on TV or the radio one time. That can be on "Nashville's Next Big Star" when Clem makes his debut, on a televised local talent show, an ad for a local business...

This is a bucket list thing. To those not familiar with the concept, it means "if this happens once I can die happy". That's all I care about. If I got one royalty check for 12 cents from a song playing on the radio I would frame it and hang it on the wall with other certificates that show I have accomplished something in 61 years. My degrees, some old baseball awards, the one 45 single that I played a minor part on in 1970 (a minor part, but I played on it!).... Also on that bucket list is driving a car 200 mph for 4 laps. And to cook one meal for a professional chef and not send them to the emergency room with food poisoning or convulsive stomach pains.

Nobody with an ounce of brains would ever consider me a potential source for hit after hit, and people who get to the place where they hire and fire writers have a lot more than an ounce. Matt Serletic doesn't return my calls. Music isn't even what I actually do. I keep servers and networks running, but nobody is going to remember the guy who kept the network going past 3 weeks after he's gone.

I have no legacy, and everybody should leave something behind when they die other than a jar of ashes. I saw my father die suddenly at 74 with a bucket list he never even got to start on. My mother was on her second time through her list when she died 10 years later at 79. My health will not likely allow me to get past 66 or 67, so time is running out for me, as none of these things are as simple as driving somewhere or buying a plane ticket, like "see Niagara Falls".

I built an engine from the ground up. Check.
I won a drag race on a real track with that engine. Check.
Played on a record that made it to the radio. Check.
Served my country and lived through a war. Check.
I had 2 kids. Check.
Finished college with a degree. Check. Check. (Twice.)
I rescued some dogs from euthanasia. Check.
A couple more, um, "personal" ones that I can't list or risk being banned.....

I am not looking for a career change here. That is simply not on my program. So if it takes selling out and writing a piece of garbage for Clem to sing, where do I sign?

Everything you listed above are super-duper noble pursuits. Getting a song on the radio is too far out of your control to be a "noble pursuit". If you want to meet Clem -- move to Nashville.