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Eddie, Interesting bucket list item. But doesn't it kind of cheapen the whole point of the bucket list item if you are just serving up same old same old for thumb in a hat and beautiful blond with a growl in her voice?
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You have your choice of contemporary country, the same oldies over and over again or rap.
You say "or rap" with a tone that it's all crap like the other things you listed. Like most on this forum including me, we don't realize that for the last 20 years rap and hip hop is where it's been. I've forced myself to listen to that occasionally and it's very creative. I've listened to the DJ's and commentators and even watched a documentary on hip hop on the History Channel. It's beyond huge but very few of us on this forum know that. The sound is so foreign (I could use stronger words but I won't) to most of us here it doesn't even get mentioned except like you just did. Totally dismissive.
All we're doing when we talk like this is revealing what out of touch idiots we all are. Sorry, but it's true. This is what's been happening all these years, this is where all the missing creativity we're all talking about is now. Rap and hip hop followed by Euro techno, dubstep and progressive rock. And yes, they're listening to all the hidden, hip internet music sites few of us even know exists.
That stuff is amazing in it's production values, totally off the wall but very creative. Mostly crap to my ears but some of it is interesting and I've got to give it it's due. It's hard to realize sometimes but there's 40 year old's walking around now who grew up on rap and hip hop. To them it's the only good music out there.
I did a wedding reception a month ago and during a break we played some Beach Boys on the PA. A cute 20 year old friend of the bride came up to me with an IPad and asked if she could plug in some of her music. Never mind she looked about 15 to me but she's actually 20. I said sure and she started editing her song list. I leaned over to her and said with a grin, gotta delete all the bitches and ho's, right? She looked at me, nodded her head and started laughing. I could tell she was thinking how did this old dude pick up that? She's your basic, comes from a wealthy family in Newport Beach, white girl just so you know. To us gangsta rap is horrible and should be illegal but to the kids it's just a joke, it's not serious but they gotta be careful around the old folks...
Does that sound familiar to some of us? 
Bob
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Eddie, Interesting bucket list item. But doesn't it kind of cheapen the whole point of the bucket list item if you are just serving up same old same old for thumb in a hat and beautiful blond with a growl in her voice?
To be absolutely honest, as my bucket gets closer and closer, I will write any kind of piece of crap I have to and sell out at any level I have to if that's what it takes to start a stream of checks with my name on them arriving in my mailbox. And the stream doesn't have to last very long. I'll call 3 monthly checks a stream.
Think about it this way. We have McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, Sonic, Rally's, Carl's, Carl's Junior... whatever it is where you live. They all sell essentially the same thing. Burgers and fries. All the same, yet they are always ALL busy. Apparently "same old" is not all that bad in fast food. By the same token, it is apparently not that bad in music too. I am not going to be phony and tell you about how I hold myself to higher standards and all that yada yada. I have a few music friends who go into that litany as they play for 12 people at little places doing it "their" way. And I supposed to play out, I would prefer to do it "my" way too, but I am talking about writing for others and selling songs to them, not performing myself. I don't have any kind of shot to get a song to the true heavyweights, but some up and coming Nashville artist is going to need material for their first CD, so why not one of mine? Or yours? I don't think the Matt Serletic machine is interested in spending time writing for newbie nobody singers that may never make it out of Nashville, but somebody has to, so why not a newbie nobody writer? And those newbie nobody singers need to sing what is popular or keep working at the convenience store.
I guess it all get put in the "Paying dues" folder.
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damn right Eddie! man I truly hope you get that big one and that stream too!!
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Quote:
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You have your choice of contemporary country, the same oldies over and over again or rap.
You say "or rap" with a tone that it's all crap like the other things you listed. Like most on this forum including me, we don't realize that for the last 20 years rap and hip hop is where it's been.Bob
Hi Bob, you have misinterpreted what I meant. I meant that most of the radio stations here are redundant; that is they only play one of those genres. Plus they all play the same set lists over and over. That is especially true of the oldie stations.
I have listened to rap and in fact I would listen to anything at least once. That was my point in that there is no real diversity in the radio stations around here like there once was. I’m not a big fan of rap but I have “borrowed” some of their rhythms.
peace
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I'm not close enough to radio to know this, but don't most stations have their music piped in from the mothership these days? Prepackaged DJs and such?
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The topic reminds me of an old Willie Nelson tune from around '74. "Sad Songs and Waltzes ain't Selling this Year."
"The desire for fame is the last infirmity cast off even by the wise."
Cornelius Tacitus
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My advice, for whatever that is worth, is to REMAIN TRUE TO YOURSELF in your songwriting and production efforts and keep at it.
Write.
Make Demos.
Submit same.
Rinse and Repeat as often as possible.
--Mac
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That is an interesting perspective, Mac, and I agree to a point, but the "thine own self be true" method has me sitting here at 61 with the bucket list growing instead of shrinking and that hasn't worked yet. I think by the time the shame of selling out would hit me, I'd be dead and wouldn't know anyway.... 
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anyone who says they wouldn't "sell out" just hasn't had an offer yet! 
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Quote:
Scott,
I need to study music that I don't know well. Up until recently if my choice was country or nothing, silence would win out every time. ... All these guys that look like a thumb with a cowboy hat, all these girls with all the blond hair.... they all look and sound the same to me.
BUT....
It's the hottest genre out there right now, and if I am truly going to continue my pursuit of the bucket list item of having a song played on the radio and performed by someone real, it will likely be a country song.
So, call it research.
I see nothing wrong with approaching music as a "business" and if your goal is to get a record on the radio, then country might be your best chance. All other genres are pretty much closed shops. Alternative and most rock is artist written, Pop and rap are artist/producer written, etc... Guess what, though -- country is going the same way. Insiders (writers and co-writers) are writing all their own tunes.
How did these folks that were once outsiders become insiders, you ask? They probably grew up together or met each other in nashville (or wherever) as they were struggling to get started or they were introduced by publisher/record labels to each other. So they formed this little circle that got bigger. That is why you see certain artists doing their "friend's" songs (the same names keep popping up). Your best shot is to find local artists at open mics, writer's night, songwriting groups and start writing with them now. Yea, still a hit or miss prospect -- but what other choice do you have?
*** Country music is lyric/story driven -- even with the onslaught of the "party/rock" anthems.
*** Country music is becoming more "urban" -- don't write about cowboy hats, boots, mud on your truck tire flaps or "daisy dukes" unless that is the life you are leading (or your co-writer is leading that life). The themes of love and loss, highs and lows and everyday life are still open for the taking.
*** It is not "who you know", but "who knows you and how do they know you".
*** There are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of country writers. You had better be prepared to support others if you expect them to support you. It's a long hard slog.
*** Country music is still only about 11% of the total sales in the US: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20...Industry-Report -- Pop, R&B/Hip-hop, and Rock control over 20% of the sales each.
If you really want to do this, I can give you the name of a mentor in nashville that can guide you through your "education". He ain't free, but he is really cheap (considering what he does for you). He will also hook you up with co-writers when you are ready. If you go this route, be prepared to be shot down a lot and be ready to change your whole style of writing. You will probably have to take 2 or 3 trips to Nashville to meet enough folks so they know who you are.
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I see nothing wrong with approaching music as a "business"
If you are giging, teaching or doing anything that earns you money you must approach it as a business. That is how I have been running my wedding band and/or teaching for years. Now I did enjoy playing out and I do enjoy teaching but it was/is all business when doing it. The fun part comes with jam sessions, playing with BiaB or free internet collaborations; money making internet collaborations are business.
Just my approach.
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
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I have found that there are many things more important in this life than mere fame and/or fortune.
Been around a few who had it but didn't seem all that happy about anything...
--Mac
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All true, but I was more focused on giving Eddie my opinions on approaches to tackling this contemporary country/get on the radio thing. The comments on whether it is the right thing to do to be "happy" is another (important) philosophical discussion. Maybe it is the more important discussion, but dang, we are all different in what floats our boats.
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Kevin has "hit the nail on the head".
To add to that... here are some things to consider...
There are dozens of publishers in Nashville who all employ staff writers. The "big" ones (Sony/Tree, Polygram, BMG to name a few) have 100-125 writers. The smaller ones may have 10-25. And, of course, everything in between. For argument sake, let's say there are 2000 staff writers in Nashville. They are ALL good writers. Most have been in Nashville for years learning and plying their craft. They write EVERY DAY. They may turn in 2-3 songs a week to their publisher (that's what they are paid for). The publisher decides what gets demoed. (Except for the really successful writers who have made enough money to demo everything they write). Those demos sound as good as anything you hear on the radio or on CDs. They pitch those songs for a few weeks and if no one picks up on them, they move on to next week's 4000 songs. There are, literally, hundreds of thousands of GREAT songs sitting on the shelves in Nashville that no one will ever hear.
There are, perhaps, 50 guys/gals in Nashville who make BIG bucks (we're talkiing millions). The ones getting 3 or 4 cuts a year. Sometimes more. The artists (producers) keep going back to them because they know how to write hits - and that's what everyone is looking for. There are, maybe, another 150-200 writers who actually "make a living" writing (a cut here and there). The other 1800 are still looking for that first cut. There are only so many "slots" per year. If there are 100 (viable) releases a year with 12 songs apiece, that's 1200 "slots". Some percentage of those are written by the artist themselves (Brad Paisley, Keith Urban types). Those 50 "big name writers" get their share and the number of slots goes down real fast.
It can take years to "develop relationships" needed, or to "get noticed". Tony Lane knocked around Nashville for 5-6 years (writing daily, playing at writer's nights several times a week) before "the big boys picked up on him" and started writing with him. Once he "hit" he got dozens of cuts (several #1's).
Nashville publishers don't have time to "deal with" outsiders. Nor do they need to. If you're good enough to "make it" in Nashville as a writer, you're probably already there. At any one time there are (at least) another 5000 people in Nashville "trying to find their way in". Most don't stay long. Some do. A few make it. But not many.
All that being said.... there is always hope. Tom Douglas "did the Nashville thing" and then went back home (Texas, I believe). At a "pitch a publisher" night at a local songwiter's organization, he manage to "get noticed", got a #1 with Collin Raye and went on to a very successful Nashville career.
Never give up.
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... For argument sake, let's say there are 2000 staff writers in Nashville. They are ALL good writers. Most have been in Nashville for years learning and plying their craft. They write EVERY DAY. They may turn in 2-3 songs a week to their publisher (that's what they are paid for). The publisher decides what gets demoed. ...
I read somewhere that this number has been slashed all the way down to ~300 to ~400 staff positions. Publishers are having hard time getting cuts with most of the writing being with the artists these days.
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I'm not surprised by that... the "scenario" I described was actually 10 years ago. The scenario still applies - it's just a smaller pie...
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Please understand my comments weren't against approaching music as a business.
There are decisions and choices to be made all up and down the line. I was trying to rationalize the thumb in hats and beautiful blonde comments with the idea of a bucket list item.
I think that TAXI kind of route is likely a must-do attempt to accomplish the 'hit' song requirement. Some type of representation and 'people' working for you, just a little bit, is likely necessary to break through.
Either that, or a very savvy social media capability. I've talked here about Tyler Ward - who now has international fame and fortune - which really started with him doing better Taylor Swift covers than Nashville was able to do with Taylor Swift herself. Tyler did them out of his basement studio here in CO. He put these up on YouTube, paid appropriate attention to licensing/royalties and what not, and now he has over a million YouTube subscribers, with over 300 million views on YouTube. Yes, 300 million views. I know Tyler pretty well from right before he started to take off on YouTube. When I would see him regularly, it was when he had perhaps 5,000 subscribers to his YouTube channel - pretty much local here in CO.
Tyler knows how to really connect with the on-line audience, globally, via social media. He has also done a great job pulling other people along in his rather rapid rise to this certain kind of fame. He's also really good at DIY music/video - again, his covers of pop songs are arguably better than what the big studios cranked out. He has been able to pretty much control his destiny - still not signed, but not for want of record companies pounding down his door. He's in control of his own gig. Record contracts are a bit irrelevant in his situation. So, social media is another way to fame, that is less dependent on the Nashville, NY or LA machine.
Or just plain dumb luck.
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Imagine this scenario.
There's a kid named Clem. He can sing. I mean REALLY sing. Clem isn't on a label yet because he can't get a good listen from anybody who can get him there. Clem spends his days singing a capella as he walks along the streets of Nashville collecting aluminum cans to recycle so he can come up with a buck to buy a newspaper to take back to the dumpster he lives in to look at later, after he practices his guitar for a few hours, so he can try and find a job at a fast food joint or convenience store. Clem knows if he can just get enough money together to make a decent demo he has a shot at making it. Clem also knows he needs a quality song to record on that demo and becasue he is not yet inside the walls of the forbidden city he has no shot at having a music publisher refer him to a professional writing team to get that one good song.
I want to meet Clem. That's who I need. Clem.
I have NO desire, intention, aspiration.... to try and become a "songwriters stable member" for a label. I want to hear one song I wrote on TV or the radio one time. That can be on "Nashville's Next Big Star" when Clem makes his debut, on a televised local talent show, an ad for a local business...
This is a bucket list thing. To those not familiar with the concept, it means "if this happens once I can die happy". That's all I care about. If I got one royalty check for 12 cents from a song playing on the radio I would frame it and hang it on the wall with other certificates that show I have accomplished something in 61 years. My degrees, some old baseball awards, the one 45 single that I played a minor part on in 1970 (a minor part, but I played on it!).... Also on that bucket list is driving a car 200 mph for 4 laps. And to cook one meal for a professional chef and not send them to the emergency room with food poisoning or convulsive stomach pains.
Nobody with an ounce of brains would ever consider me a potential source for hit after hit, and people who get to the place where they hire and fire writers have a lot more than an ounce. Matt Serletic doesn't return my calls. Music isn't even what I actually do. I keep servers and networks running, but nobody is going to remember the guy who kept the network going past 3 weeks after he's gone.
I have no legacy, and everybody should leave something behind when they die other than a jar of ashes. I saw my father die suddenly at 74 with a bucket list he never even got to start on. My mother was on her second time through her list when she died 10 years later at 79. My health will not likely allow me to get past 66 or 67, so time is running out for me, as none of these things are as simple as driving somewhere or buying a plane ticket, like "see Niagara Falls".
I built an engine from the ground up. Check.
I won a drag race on a real track with that engine. Check.
Played on a record that made it to the radio. Check.
Served my country and lived through a war. Check.
I had 2 kids. Check.
Finished college with a degree. Check. Check. (Twice.)
I rescued some dogs from euthanasia. Check.
A couple more, um, "personal" ones that I can't list or risk being banned.....
I am not looking for a career change here. That is simply not on my program. So if it takes selling out and writing a piece of garbage for Clem to sing, where do I sign?
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Everything you listed above are super-duper noble pursuits. Getting a song on the radio is too far out of your control to be a "noble pursuit". If you want to meet Clem -- move to Nashville.
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Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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