|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 157
Apprentice
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 157 |
Hi All
I am in need of some tutoring - I have loosly used the BiaB styles for many years and notice the difference between "16th spaced" feel and "8th spaced feel" (I hope my terminology is correct). Being a guitar player I can feel the difference but have unable to find some theory to understand the relationship between timing, tempo and feel (and genre). A 4/4 or other time signature with a tempo (bpm) is clear to me but I do not fully understand the theory of "feel" (8th or 16th) and then the genre (rock, latin, pop, jazz, ..etc)also plays a role.
Can someone assist or provide a link to a web site that maybe clarifies these issues?
Thank you
Roy
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
The musical term for this is "SUBDIVISION".
As usual, a big word used to describe a relatively easy thing <grin>.
When we say, "8th" we are really talking about the rhythmic pattern that 8th notes have.
Even that last sentence may seem full of double-talkin' new vocabulary, right?
Here's all you have to do:
There are two 8th notes for every single beat in a tune that is 8ths based.
Count the four beats to every bar in a 4/4 song, as it plays, by saying to yourself, "One-AND-Two-AND-Three-AND-Four-AND" and you've automatically put two notes on every beat in an Even feel. That is 8ths.
Sixteenths feel, there are twice as many notes per beat. 4 notes over each beat.
"One-A-and-ah, Two-A-and-ah" etc.
Of course, this is the FEEL that the musicians are counting and it is often counted in their heads while they don't always actually play on every one of the two or four beat subdivisions. They might elect to hold a chord or note out over two or more of those subdivisions, yet accent the subdivisions as well at different times in the bar or the song part. But the feel of it will still be there.
Good drill is to play various musics of different genres at random, and practice finding the number of beats per bar, whether in two, three, four beats to the bar, etc. and then counting out loud as in the above along with the songs.
The above is best done without regard to whatever is your favorite musical genre or form, as well. A lot can be learned a lot faster by doing that little drill with all sorts of musics, all sorts of styles, all sorts of genres, etc.
And don't neglect trying it with a few Classical Music offerings as well...
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
One last thing on this subject while I'm still thinking about it:
COUNT.
All. the. time.
Make that a habit, even if the song seems relatively easy to play without counting it.
"You can play the wrong note, but if it is at the right time, chances are good that you will get away with it. But even the right note, if played at the wrong time, will stick out like the proverbial sore thumb."
Far too many self-taught musicians fall into the notion that they can lean on other members of the band for the counting, particularly the drummer. This is a fallacy that will always lead to a less-than-stellar performance. Everybody in the ensemble has got to count for themselves as that is the only way that things initiate at the exact same time.
The various instruments were designed to emulate the human singing voice.
But the SONG is designed to emulate DANCE.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,793
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,793 |
really great explanations! thanx Mac!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439 |
Quote:
One last thing on this subject while I'm still thinking about it:
COUNT.
All. the. time.
Make that a habit, even if the song seems relatively easy to play without counting it.
"You can play the wrong note, but if it is at the right time, chances are good that you will get away with it. But even the right note, if played at the wrong time, will stick out like the proverbial sore thumb."
Far too many self-taught musicians fall into the notion that they can lean on other members of the band for the counting, particularly the drummer. This is a fallacy that will always lead to a less-than-stellar performance. Everybody in the ensemble has got to count for themselves as that is the only way that things initiate at the exact same time.
Yup, couldn't agree with you more...
But this:
Quote:
The various instruments were designed to emulate the human singing voice.
But the SONG is designed to emulate DANCE.
is the real gem - hope you don't mind if I quote you on that.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Just take the time to think about it and you will see that EVERYTHING has rhythm. Walking, shewing, breathing, brushing your teeth.... even your heart is measured in beats per minute! I find myself counting to 4 all the time. Walking from my car to my office... 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4 Just like Saturday Night Fever with the paint can! Unless it's raining. Then it's 1-uh-and-uh-2-uh-and-uh-...... Try it for a day. Count your steps as quarter notes. L-R-L-R-L-R-L-R... Count your chews as 8th notes. As your teeth go down, that's the downbeat, and as your teeth go up, that's the backbeat. 1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and..... Then when you brush your teeth, that's fast 16th notes. Make either back or down as your downbeat depending on how you brush. For 3/4 time, you're on your own.... maybe eat some hot soup. Scoop-blow-eat-scoop-blow-eat 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Three Quarter time can be handled in the "classic" Strauss Waltz fashion:
One, Two, Three, One, Two Three
Where the emphasis is on the ONE of each bar.
That's the old, OOM-pah-pah of the Waltz.
The Jazz Waltz, however, is a lot better when the musicians are using the Back Beat.
Since one bar is not divisible evenly by two, we have to do the backbeat over each two successive bars, like this:
One, Two, Three, One, Two, Three...
Do it over and over, evenly, while snapping hour fingers to the highlighted beats and you'll soon discover that your fingers are actually snapping in 2/4 time, even though the song is 3/4, but this way of perceiving the events makes for that smooth sound of the jazz waltz rather than the oom-pah thang.
"Bluesette" is an old jazz standard that readily comes to mind.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,826
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,826 |
I am with you Eddie. Daniel Barenboim used to say that every phrase is like a life, it has a birth, an ascendence then it fades away - seems to be interconnected with what you mean - I think
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,079
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,079 |
Quote:
For 3/4 time, you're on your own.... maybe eat some hot soup. Scoop-blow-eat-scoop-blow-eat
HAHAHA! excellent!!
Alyn
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 157
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 157 |
Thanks for the tips guys - I now need to move into "Macs Mode" to try and nail the feel of songs by counting as I am now feeling it without counting properly.
While on the topic of feel - why does a waltz type song (classical or pop) get peoples feet tapping so quickly and they seem to pick up a new melody much faster than songs other of the other time signatures?
Enjoy the new year
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 157
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 157 |
Another brief question please!
Mac's explanation is for even rhytmic patterns of 8th and 16th notes in a 4/4 time signatutre song. In many music forms (and my BiaB) we also have swing styles - does this not complicate the topic even further (maybe not complicate it but just make it more interesting?). How is the swing feel then described?
Thank you
Roy
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
EVen Feel is where each quarter note beat is subdivided by 2, yielding the 8th notes being even in duration. The "One-and-Two-and-Three-and-Four-and" thing. SWing feel, while being written on the notation in the same way as the above, each quarter note beat is actually subdivided into THREE's -- but not to be confused with the EVen feel's Triplets. When encountering two 8th notes tied together in SWing feel, they are played as the first note having a longer duration than the second note. "Dooo-bee, Dooo-bee, Dooo-bee, Dooo-bee" -- and in actuality would be an 8th note triplet figure with the first two notes tied together. Inside Band in a Box, in the Notation Editor View, you can easily see this as the dotted vertical subdivision lines are Three when SW feel is invoked in the Options window, but there will be four vertical subdivision dotted lines per beat when EV feel is invoked. Try opening one of the Demo songs that has notation on the Melody track and switch it back and forth in Edit view. Try that with both EV and SW examples. Then be sure to watch the note highlighting as the song plays, as well. Doesn't matter if you are not a chart reader here, it is the Rhythm of the thing that counts, the way the beat is subdivided. (Also really helps to accent beats TWO and FOUR instead of one and three when counting along with a SWing feel song. This is the "backbeat" -- clapping on 2 and 4 as done in the African-American church, or the part that a snare drum might typically hit in many rock and pop styles.) "It ain't whatcha do, its the way whatcha do it." -- This was a popular song back in the Swing era, actually a song about the above differences. Also the song I goto when teaching swing to the youngsters still today, simply because once the kids hear it, they GET it. Jimmy Lunceford's Lesson in Swing --Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums58
Topics84,654
Posts782,523
Members39,716
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean