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I have a music theory question. Not a trick question or anything, just wondering.
Most common chords in pop/jazz songs can be tied to the original key, so that they "make sense". For example, in the key of C, all the diatonic chords (Cmaj7,Dm7,Em7,Fmaj7,G7,Am7,Bm7b5) make sense in the key. And we can also add the chords for Cm (Cm7,Dm7b5,EbMaj7,Fm7,Gm7,AbMaj7,Bb7). Then we can add dominant 7 chords that "approach" chords that are a 4th above, adding these to the key of C... C7,D7,E7
Also, C#dim7 makes sense in that it is like an A7b9 without the root.
It helps to know how the chord fits in to the key. For example, if you can think of a C#Dim7 like an A7b9, it makes a progression like C6|C#dim7|Dm7|G7 in to a simpler one CMaj7|A7|Dm7|G7
But how about a chord like Cdim7 (or its similar cousins Ebdim7,F#dim7. They occur commonly in the key of C, but how are they related to the key of C?
For example, these are common chord progressions:
C | Cdim7 | Dm7 | G7
C | Ebdim7 | Dm7 | G7
F | F#dim7 | C/G | A7
Is the Cdim7 related to some other chords in the key of C in some way?
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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I've always read there are two ways to look at a dim chord. One is as an incomplete dom7. So a Bdim is basically a G7 without the root. But... I'm not seeing that in your examples. The other is as a passing chord with no tonal center. In that context, each note of the diminished chord can be considered equally valid root. So a C#dim7 (C#,E,G,Bb) could be written with any of the notes as the root. What really matters is the note that the chord is leading to - optimally you want the notes to move smoothly to the target. That makes sense for where it's used for a brief duration, but again, not for your examples, where it's held for a whole measure. So... That sort of leaves that dim chord to be explained some sort of passing chromatic motion. With the first two examples: C | Cdim | Dm7 | G7 C | Ebdim | Dm7 | G7 if you treat the Cdim6 as a Ebdim6, they're the same chord - a double chromatic suspension resolving to the Dm7: C -> C Eb -> D Gb -> F A -> A With the last progression, F | F#dim | C/G | A7 I see this as more a passing bass note, along the lines of: Fmaj7 (Am/F) | F#dim (Am/F#) | C/G | A7 So I'm not sure they're "related" to the key of C, in the sense that they're diatonic. But I'm a dilettante, not a practitioner. 
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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In many instances a Cdim7 in the key of C can be used as a D7, F7, Ab7 or B7. All dependent on what comes before, after and the melody. C///|Cdim///|Dm7 could become C///|Ebm7///|Dm7 or C///|Ebm7/Ab7/|Dm7 There are a thousand more possibilities. Later, Ray
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Hi Peter,
Here's my take on it:
C | Cdim7 | Dm7 | G7 -- A popular sub for Rhythm Changes in the early era, I tend to think of the Cdim7 here as sub for Am also, but in this case Am6ALT that includes the b5 and b9 w/o root. Am6b5b9 A bit dense, though, so I save such for the wild stuff, would likely make more palatable harmony to go with the full diminished there, which would drop that b9 concept for the A. When it was used in Rhythm Changes it freed up the Bass player to stay on the C for the first three bars, then leaving the choice to drop a half step for the V7 chord, yielding a G7/B, or just play the root after the three C notes.
C | Ebdim7 | Dm7 | G7
Forces Bass note to be the b5 of that Amin7 sub above, retaining the 6th of the A chord, but this time the third of the A chord is impied Major rather than minor. I can be accused of grabbing such a sub where it seems appropriate to play that Am7 in the typical I, vi, ii, V7 as I,VI, II, V7. (ala the first two lines of Rhythm Changes in the original, but without the iii sub for the I the second time around.)
F | F#dim7 | C/G | A7
Now we are steering away from the Rhythm Changes type of sub. If the following bar were to be Dm, this might make a way to get there rather than the old two five one method. "Five to Five" modulation in the last two bars.
There's that old school jazzer's rule of thumb that if a chord shares two or more notes with another, then it likely can be used as a sub. Well, if the given Melody doesn't create a clam problem.
--Mac
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I've always looked at the Cdim7 in the key of C as a VI chord. Works for me and makes sense(in my mind, anyway) diatonically. It's probably more complicated than that, but I can play it much better than I can explain it.
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An enharmonic chord, and it can resolve many ways. IN 4 iterations. I usually view it as passing to an Am or Dm. I think it's the way your think of all dim7 chords. Then there is the 9th theory, and that's some complicated and makes me shake my head.
I'll have to get out my wife's music books after and have a peek. I'd ask her but when she forgets those 15 years of theory culminating in 4 an university, I get a dirty look when I ask a hard one.
There is also a world of difference in it's treatment from classical to jazz in my mind.
Jazz to me spends more times with resolving in unpredictable ways, which can lead to interest. And the chord can mess with one's head using triads and the inversions.
Somewhere I hear the C#dim7 and F#dim7 going back and forth in classical music but I just don't remember where. I'll have to mess with that and get back to you if the light comes on.
Jazz was part of my new year's resolution, for the 5th time, it seems to go in circles.
Gee that was obtuse.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Thanks Peter for thoughtful discussion, I actually gained useful insight from this thread (now if it will only stick) It even forced me to go do some re-reading (and count notes on fingers and toes to follow  ) too bad no real final "academic" answer (just left with a somewhat resolved chord!) Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 01/15/13 06:52 PM.
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Hi Peter, From my understanding of classical harmony, there are primarily two ways that the diminished chord is treated. 1. The diminished triad resolves to an inversion of a chord that has its root a perfect 4th higher (perfect 5th lower). This is the standard resolution for discords (dim, aug, 7, etc). 2. As you've already indicated, the diminished 7th acts as dominant harmony (without the dominant present and what would normally be the major 3rd up from the dominant as the chord's root note). For example, in the key of C major or C minor, Bdim7 is usually considered a variation of the dominant 7th (G7 chord) that has B as its root note rather than G. In this way (in the key of C), Bdim(7) leads to some inversion of C. Arguably, though, this second point can be considered as a special case of point 1. For example, Bdim7 is enharmonically equivalent to Ddim7. The 4th above D is G and thus Ddim7 will resolve to a G chord. This, in turn, can be resolved to C (in C major or minor). So Ddim7-G7-C can be condensed to become Bdim7-C. CONSIDERING POINT #1 ABOVEIn the key of A minor, chord ii (Bmb5 = Bdim triad) resolves to E (or E7) which, in turn, usually resolves to Am. (This is the standard ii-V-i progression in minor mode. This is also in keeping with the notion that chord ii is a variation of subdominant harmony.) This principle can also be applied to secondary dominants. For example, consider the below progression in C major. C-Dm-G7-CWhen considering possible chords to lead to the Dm, the secondary dominant of D is A7 and so the progression could become ... C-A7-Dm-G7-CEqually, borrowing from minor mode harmony, the diminished triad a perfect 4th below D could also lead to Dm (using point #1 above). This gives C-Amb5-Dm-G7-C. Like A7, this diminished triad has the A root note. For this reason, I think of the above progression as the diminished variation of dominant harmony. Diminished triads often sound better when played as an inversion rather than root position. So putting the Amb5 in second inversion gives … C-Amb5/Eb-Dm-G7Extending the Am5b and Dm chord into chords of the 7th then gives … C-Adim7/Eb-Dm7-G7(Where the dim7 uses the principle of stacking notes that are successively a minor 3rd apart (as found in the seventh chord formed on the second note of the harmonic minor scale). Thus the musical distance from the root note to the top note is a diminished 7th: e.g. C-Eb-Gb-Bbb; and the notes C -> Bbb = a diminished 7 interval.) Since Adim7 = Cdim7 = Ebdim7 = Gbdim7, it's often easier to name a diminished 7th chord by its bass note since its less confusing to interpret this visually. This gives … C-Ebdim7-Dm7-G7 where Ebdim7 is really Adim7/Eb. Also, Adim7 and Cdim7 are equivalent chords – that is, contain exactly the same notes – so the the above chord progression could also be written as … C-Cdim7-Dm7-G7 which is C-Adim7/C-Dm7-G7(To my mind, both Cdim7 and Ebdim7 are alternative ways of expressing Adim7 and so are a form of secondary dominant harmony when they lead to a Dm(7) chord.) CONSIDERING C/G HARMONYThe progression C-D7-G7-C, where D7 is a secondary dominant, can be decorated to become C-D7/F#-G7-CIn cadential position, a variation of G(7) is C/G which is essentially a G chord with two suspensions (the C and the E). In this position, C/G behaves as dominant harmony and not tonic harmony. Thus the above chord progression could be elaborated to become (melody permitting) … C-D7/F#-C/G-G7-CAs explained in point 1, the diminished chord a 4th below D could used to lead to D7. Using 7ths, this gives … C-Adim7-D7/F#-C/G-G7-CHowever, Adim7=Gbdim7, and Gbdim7 is enharmonically equivalent to F#dim7. Thus … C-F#dim7-D7/F#-C/G-G7-CBecause there are now two successive chords on the F# bass, either one can be eliminated. Choosing the dim7 chord then gives ... C-F#dim7-C/G-G7-CAlternatively, since F# is the leading note of G major (or G minor), and since the cadential C/G is simply a variation of G(7), the same principle of Bdim7 leading to C in the key of C major can be applied and F#dim7 can lead to C/G (if one considers a temporary key change of G major). In the progression ... C-F#dim7-C/G-A7... C/G is what theory people call a passing 6/4 chord (6/4 = second inversion and comes about from Bach's day when figured basses were used). Since the bass is G, it is still good music to think of this as a form of G chord. To me, C/G feels more like a dominant chord than a tonic chord because of the dissonant interval of a 4th between the bass (G) and the chord tone C. To my way of thinking, given the above, F#dim7 to C/G is a less obvious variation of secondary dominant harmony. AUDIO FILEFor comparison purposes, I've put together this 4-part harmony audio file of some of the above chord progression. ...link here (approx. 360 kB) The progressions are ... 1. C - Am - Dm - G7 - C 2. C - A7 - Dm - G7 - C 3. C - Adim7 - Dm - G7 - C 4. C - Cdim7 - Dm - G7 - C 5. C - Ebdim7 - Dm - G7 - C To my ear,even though the various second chords in the progressions sound slightly different, there's enough similarity to show that the dim7 chords are all acting in a similar way to the secondary dominant A7. (The reason that the Ebdim7 sounds more noticeably different than the others is because the melody needed to change to accommodate Eb in the bass.) SUMMARYIn all instances, the progressions have come about by considering (a) that a discord (in this case the diminished chord) classically resolves to a chord whose root is a perfect 4th higher or (b) that a dim7 chord can resolved to an inversion of a chord whose root is one semitone higher that the root of the dim7. Hope this helps with some kind of insight, Noel
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+1 
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I did a lot of theory study last year to try to get to the bottom of such questions.
Most stuff of course resolves modally, and therefore makes sewnse this way. Music is also often tension and release tension and release. So what of the tension part? Well there are varying degrees. To have tension one must overturn the expected chord, but this can be dome by one note two or three or even four. Whtat I came to realise is that any tension has its beauty IF it is resolved contextually.
I have also found that the dimininished scale has its own logic. It is unsettled, unless it returns to the root (no perfect fifth). However, it can reproduce it's own structure on every second note - so as to potentiallly nominate that note as new root. This gives it a kaelidoscopic patternating quality, a kind of daisy chaining property that is not possessed by the major or minor scales but is also present in the whole tone scale. Certain harmonic structures can be based on this rather that the conventional modal thinking. So sometimes the diminished functions to imply another, non modal context. Think Debussy.
Obviously it also has a role as a tension in modal harmony as cited above in various manners
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This has already been touched upon but I'll add it anyway. I like doing this for practice to work myself through the various keys.
Dim7ths can also be used as pivot chords to effect a modulation to remote keys, so any note of a dim7th can be lowered a semitone to make a dominant 7th, which can then be used as a V7-1 cadence in the new key.
So if for some reason you wanted to go from C major key to Bb Minor Key, you could play the C dim7th chord and then lower the Gb to F to get an F7th chord, which can then proceed to the tonic chord of Bb Minor.
Even though not all are effective, we can end up with 4 major and 4 minor key modulations just from the one dim7. Very handy if you are stuck trying to get to an unrelated key.
I like experimenting with dim7ths, they are interesting chameleons.
(The C-Cdim7-Dm7-G7 is a really nice sounding progression isn't it.)
yjoh
[i]Music...a joy for life.
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People without a lot of experience blowing the Rhythm Changes and chording same are likely to miss the point because of that.
--Mac
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Yes, Rhythm Changes (key Bb), uses that dim7 a lot....
the second bar can be
| Dm7 C#dim7 | Cm7 F7 |
for that one, I've thought of the C#dim7 as an A7b9/C# .
Then a few bars later (Bar 6), when it comes up again ...
| Eb6 Edim7 | , we have that same chord again (Edim7 is similar to C#dim7 and Bbdim7).
But in this case I think of the Edim7 just like a Eb7b9 (ie no real change of chord).
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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To all who have posted:
Thanks for all the helpful input.
As indicated in the posts, it (Cdim7 in key of C) is an interesting chord. Sounds so musical and correct for the key of C, yet doesn't have an obvious reason why it belongs.
Used in lots of songs (e.g. Embraceable You, Rhythm Changes etc.)
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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I always thought that all musics actually consist of various forms of Tension--->Release.
That can be rhythmic as well as melodic as well as harmonic.
Use of the Cdim7 in C changes a C7 to a C7 that also has a b5 and #9 in it, one way to look at it.
The two primary "supertension" notes.
--Mac
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Embraceable You is a good example. In the second bar, (key of C), Ebdim is the correct chord. A good sub is Am7b5/D7b9/ Later, Ray
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,
A most interesting question, Peter. I could think of it as a variant ii7 (am7), since it fits that place in the rhythm changes so well. But really the Gb kind of disqualifies it as an A-anything. It is more than a passing chord, since it does not go to C#, or contain a C#. It certainly fits in the 'tension/release' model which Mac mentioned, but I dont' think that quite answers the question you asked.
Hmmm....you got me puzzling now...I know it sounds good, but...
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Am7 = the vi in key of C though.
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I think the Cdim7 moving to Dm7 sounds good because it's resolving as it should and in a way our ears are expecting.
Dim7th chords are classified as chromatic harmony and usually if you chromatically alter a note, it resolves in the same direction as it was altered. If you sharpen a note it will resolve upwards and if you flatten a note it will resolve downwards.
So for example, if you changed C Major chord to C augmented, the G# should resolve up a semitone to A. When we play Caug Chord then F Major chord, the release of tension from the G# to the A sounds right and pleasant.
In Cdim7 the Eb and Gb are, as already mentioned, appoggiaturas to D and F, so by lowering the the Eb and Gb a semitone to D and F, the result is smooth and they are resolving in a theoretically (what a horrible word to spell!) correct way.
The resulting Dm7 (C,D,F,A) releases the tension in a way that is expected and "comforting" to our ears.
Nice!
yjoh
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Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
Whether you're exploring new features, checking out the latest RealTracks or Style PAKs, this is your go-to guide for Band-in-a-Box® 2026.
Check out this forum post for "One Stop Shopping" of our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Videos!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 100 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until May 15, 2026. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49.
Holiday Weekend Hours
As we hop into the Easter weekend, here are our holiday hours:
April 3 (Good Friday): 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM PDT
April 4 (Saturday): Closed
April 5 (Easter Sunday): Closed
April 6 (Easter Monday): Open regular hours
Wishing you an egg-cellent weekend!
— Team PG
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