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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2013
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It seems to happen to me quite regulary that I start to enter written music and end up having no issue until I run into a tied note. I seem to have one type of problem solved and then another comes up. I do not under stand why when you enter the last note in any bar the tie carries over to the same note in the following bar but will not stay tied to that note when you enter the following note. Can I get an explaination for this?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi David, That's the way the notation entry works. If you want the note to stay tied to the note in the second bar, simply click on beat 2 or greater (or, for that matter, part of the way through beat 1) to get the tie happening. If you click on beat 1 of the second bar, the tie will be overwritten with a note. When I first started using BIAB's notation, I found it incredibly confusing because it's very different from any other notation software around. Now that I have the hang of it, I've come to appreciate just how fast it is at entering notes. I prefer to use BIAB these days. If you scroll down the webpage that the below link takes you to, you'll find a video clip on entering notation under "Video Archives". It's worth watching. (Ignore that it's from 2004 because the process is still the same today.) http://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htmHope this helps, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Now I am really confused as I know what you say to be true if you enter for example 4 quarter notes while in 4/4 time the tie will stay in the first beat of the next bar and that you can change the first beat to a 1/8 note by adding it into the 3rd dotted line. When you have a whole note and the tie carries over to the next bar you cannot add in the same 1/8 note without the tie being broken. You can also enter a series of 8 1/8 notes and the tie will stay but you cannot enter two 1/4 notes and have the 1/2 note carry over and expect the tie to stay so that you can enter any other note in to the first beat. The tie will disappear. Why is this happening?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi David,
It is happening because you are trying to think ahead of a smart program. Don't be conmcerned about that, I think it gets us all, but only until you grasp what is happening there really and what to do about it.
**The last note entered will always be a looong note, sometimes extending into the next bar. That is by design. If you need that note to end at a certain point and there is not another note to follow it, select the Rest by checking it above the Notation Entry window and click on the vertical dotted line immediately following that last note's desired notation.
**Some printed musics may contain a tied note when a simpler duration would be the better choice. Band in a Box will sometimes turn, for example, any attempt to tie two quarter notes together into a single half note. Duration, of course, is identical.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi David, Quote:
you cannot enter two 1/4 notes and have the 1/2 note carry over and expect the tie to stay so that you can enter any other note in to the first beat
When I read the above, it confused me a little because if you enter a note on beat 1 of the bar, the tie will disappear. As Mac points out above, when a note is entered in BIAB, it's default state is a long, held note. If that length extends across a bar line, then it will be tied. To enter the next note, simply click where you want it to be and the tie across the bar line will adjust or disappear. If, for example, you click on beat 1 for the second note, then the tie will disappear because you are adding a note to beat 1. If you are aiming to get a slur across the bar line, that is a phrase line that joins two notes of different pitch, that needs to be done after the music has been entered.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Now I am really confused as I know what you say to be true if you enter for example 4 quarter notes while in 4/4 time the tie will stay in the first beat of the next bar and that you can change the first beat to a 1/8 note by adding it into the 3rd dotted line. When you have a whole note and the tie carries over to the next bar you cannot add in the same 1/8 note without the tie being broken. You can also enter a series of 8 1/8 notes and the tie will stay but you cannot enter two 1/4 notes and have the 1/2 note carry over and expect the tie to stay so that you can enter any other note in to the first beat. The tie will disappear. Why is this happening?
You are correct, it doesn't work right in certain cases.
I cannot enter a whole note in bar 1, tied to an eighth note in bar 2.
Instead, I get an eighth rest where the eighth note should be.
Last edited by megafiddle; 02/16/13 03:44 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Megafiddle, Thank you for the clarification. I can see the problem now. This can be adjusted using two things. A) Go into Notation Mode  When in Notation Mode ... - Select the "Opt" button (#1). This will open the Notation Window Options (#2).
- Now select the "More" button (#3).
- Set the "Duration %" (#4) to 95 or higher.
B) After exiting the "Other Notation Options" and returning to the "Notation Window Options" (#2), make sure that "Minimize Rests" is active (#3).  This should do the job. Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thank you very much I was almost ready to get rid of this program as to this point it has only made me frustrated. I don't know why this works but it does. Can you explain why this works?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi David, This happens because note entry is midi-based. When the setting is 80%, the note doesn't extend into the following bar and so is not tied. This is one of the instances when it's necessary to tweak the entered note. There are a few ways to tweak notes. The one that I use most often is Piano Roll Mode. Below is how I go about tweaking when needed. 1. Enter the notes in "Notation Mode". I don't worry if tied notes are incorrect as I'll modify these later. For example, I've entered the notes below and I want the C to extend across bars 5, 6 and the first half of bar 7. On initial note entry, the tie isn't working because it's a limitation of BIAB's "smart" approach.  2. Once the notes are where I want them, I then go into "Piano Roll Mode" by clicking on the icon below.  3. When in Piano Roll Mode, make sure that "M" (#1, for Melody Track") is selected.  As you can see, the notes are displayed on a grid that aligns with a piano keyboard to give pitch information (#2). The Bars / Beats information is displayed at the top (#3). The grid clearly shows that the note I want to tie into bar 7 has a gap in it (#4). 4. To fix this gap, hover the mouse over the right edge of the note on the grid (#1). When the cursor changes to an arrow, left-click the mouse and drag the edge of the note to the right to extend its length (#2).  This will give the following.  5. When I return to Notation Mode, the note now looks like this.  Also, in Piano Roll Mode, there are some excellent tools to help align notes and to get them the correct length. These are found using the drop-down menus highlighted below.  To learn more about how to use these feature, have a look at the PDF "Help" document found under the "Help Menu".  The manual explains things much more thoroughly than I can within the limitations of a forum. Hope this helps, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks, also.
Would have taken me a while to find that one.
That makes sense, as the notation mode display is based on actual midi event data,
as specified in the options, not on standard notation.
Since BIAB also has Staff Roll Notation mode for displaying actual durations,
it might be a good option for future version to display notes in Editable Notation
mode as if the notes were 100% duration, while preserving the actual durations.
For most notes in this mode, you can't see the actual duration anyway.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Since BIAB also has Staff Roll Notation mode for displaying actual durations,
it might be a good option for future version to display notes in Editable Notation
mode as if the notes were 100% duration, while preserving the actual durations.
For most notes in this mode, you can't see the actual duration anyway.
Band in a Box has had just such a feature for years.
To the right of the Edit Notation button is Staff Roll Notation mode button.
If you click that, each note on the staff will have a Vertical blue line and a Horizontal blue line appended to it. This is a graphic representation of the Velocity (Vertical Line) and the Duration (Horizontal Line). The view also includes the dotted vertical lines for the beats and subdivision of the beats, just like in the standard Editable Notation mode.
Just grab the line you wish to change for a note and drag it with the mouse and release the button.
The vertical subdivision lines makes it a snap to change Durations to suit what you wish to see. Just make certain that the Options is set to Even for even feel such that you get the 4 vertical lines when needed to subdivide in other than Swing feel, which divides by 3 instead of 4. Not setting that correctly can result in note durations that are undesirable - and if set properly in the first place likely avoids having to edit each note one at a time anyway. This is something that I think a lot of folks don't grasp and is likely the underlying reason for a lot of note duration problems reported.
Fast way to Edit Duration of long strings of notes or the whole thing if necessary.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2013
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thanks for the info guys. it'll really help me.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Band in a Box has had just such a feature for years.
To the right of the Edit Notation button is Staff Roll Notation mode button....
--Mac
That's what I was referring to,
"Since BIAB also has Staff Roll Notation mode for displaying actual durations..."
What I am thinking of is that the Editable Notation mode could simply enter each note
symbol as if the duration was 100%. In other words, each note symbol would have a duration
that extended all the way to the next note symbol, regardless of the actual event duration.
The actual duration would remain as selected, for example, 80%.
There are a couple reasons for this.
I don't think you really want to change the duration percentage just to have the notation
look correct. A percentage of less than 100% is more natural sounding, as we don't normally
play everything legato.
Also, for most notes, especially the shorter ones, that's the way it works anyway. If you
enter a string of quarter notes with very short durations, you get quarter note symbols in
Editable Notation mode. You don't have to lengthen the actual durations of notes to have them
appear as expected. I would simply suggest that this should also apply to long notes like the
whole note tied to an eighth note described earlier.
And of course we have the Staff Roll Notation mode for viewing and editing actual durations.
It seems that is where duration information is better viewed, not in Notation mode.
I realize that the notation in BIAB is not intended to be an full featured notation editor,
but it seems that this would be simple enough to do.
I also happen to like it a lot (Editable Notation mode) as I can enter notes in exactly the
same way I think about them, that is, in relation to the beat locations. I'll let the program
figure out the durations. And one button click per note is hard to beat.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks, this one of the best discussions I've seen of this topic. I have learned a couple of valuable things by reading this thread.
Stan
Cornet Curmudgeon
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