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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 21
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 21 |
Hi There,
I have been using Power Tracks Pro Audio for a while to generate backing tracks for my personal playing from Midi files I have found.
All is cool but the sounds are not really the best esp. sax and other horns.
I have toyed with the idea of a hardware sound module but after lots of research I am thinking my best plan is to go for Band in a Box -for the better sounds -and edit in Real band.
Costs heaps more but at my stage in life extra years are not cheap either!!
Can any long term users comment on this plan? -I find PT really good but feel that RT in BinB could be heaps better?
Cheers and Thanks in advance.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Hi Laurie, Go for Band In A Box. You won't regret it. The Realtracks that BIAB uses are created by world class musicians and are live recordings of real instruments. They sound 100% authentic because they are. When used to create a backing track, these instruments sound like you've invited the musicians into your music room to play for you. MIDI is still part of the BIAB/RB (that is, 'Band In A Box' and "Realband') toolbox. These days, PG Music have developed what they call MIDI Supertracks. Like Realtracks, these MIDI format tracks have been created by world class musicians. If you go over to the "Users Showcase" ( at this link), you'll be able to listen to a whole heap of songs created using BIAB/RB. There are also heaps of demos here at PG Music if you go to this link. Also, when you purchase BIAB, you'll get Realband automatically. Realband is based on Powertracks Pro but with the ability to interface with BIAB and its associated technology. This makes it very versatile. Lastly, should you decide to buy, my advice is not to settle for anything less than the UltraPlus Pak. This is the minimum package that has everything (over 1000 Realtracks plus much much more). All the best, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Well Real Tracks (RT) used in either BIAB or RealBand (RB) do sound more "real" then midi. After all they are audio recordings of actual musicians playing actual instruments. But don't rule out getting darn good sound from midi in both of these applications, but you NEED a good synth. You don't say what you have been using to get you midi sounds? My go to for General Midi is a Soft-Synth - Coyote Forte, so you don't necessarily need an external hardware device. But I will also use any other sound file under a VST such as Sample Tank or PianoTec to get the great instrument sound as need. Noel can type much faster than I... 
Last edited by jazzmandan; 03/09/13 01:57 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 21
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 21 |
Thanks for your attention guys.
I'm a relative newbie using Forte DXi and a 64 bit PC with the audio output going into a stereo sound system.
Each plugin seems to have a few good sounds for different instruments and I have tried lots of free ones but so far this is the best all round result - piano, bass and guitar are acceptable.
However as I play trumpet I am really after the best Sax, Horn, other brass and woodwind sounds I can get, so far without any luck. I have a number of good Midi backing tracks from a wide range of music styles and types that I have spend a lot of time to develop/alter - note by note - on PT. These I want to keep but enhance.
Can you import these into RB and get the Real tracks sounds into these?
Alternatively I have been toying with the idea of getting Garritan Jazz and Big Band for the sounds although I would rather spend the money on BinB.
Once I have this programme I will change over and not use PT anymore.
Anyone with any advice?
Cheers
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,443
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Hi. I play trumpet and most horns, and one thing I've noticed is that many musicians tend not to like the sound of a computer playing their instrument. Someone who doesn't play trumpet will not be aware of all performance nuances that are missing.
RealTracks are snippets of actual playing by real musicians, and those phrases are assembled by BIAB. They sound fabulous. Unfortunately, at this time, they cannot play a specific part.
I've used Garritan Jazz and Big Band. Ironically, I liked the bass best. Now, you can manipulate individual notes to sound great, but it won't happen on a horn sound directly from BIAB or any other music program of which I am aware. So, what you seek isn't quite out there yet, as far as I know. I hope I'm wrong, but then if I am, I might lose work. In the meantime, when you mix MIDI with backing RealTracks, it tends to make the MIDI more acceptable.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Quote:
I have been using Power Tracks Pro Audio for a while to generate backing tracks for my personal playing from Midi files I have found. All is cool but the sounds are not really the best esp. sax and other horns. I have toyed with the idea of a hardware sound module but after lots of research I am thinking my best plan is to go for Band in a Box -for the better sounds -and edit in Real band.
Lauri, you're asking about playing midi files you've collected. For midi you need a midi synth. As you've found out already, the freebie ones or cheaper ones can sound merely ok for some things and decent for other things. To get good sound you need a good synth either hardware or software. The costs can go from a few hundred dollars to several thousand. Describing the different synths that are available would take a small book. Your midi files are probably GM (General Midi) so that restricts things a bit. Using a non GM synth can sound great but you have to manually set up each instrument on each track of your midi file while GM is simply "plug and play" so to speak. That's nice but the problem with GM is first there's only a few patches for each instrument while a good non GM synth may have 20 plus many of the GM sounds are not as good as a non GM synth. That's the tradeoff. Convenience vs better sound and many more choices of instrument patches.
When we talk about Biab and Real Tracks that's great, the RT's sound very good but they won't help you with midi files because RT's are not midi, they're audio recordings of real musicians playing phrases in all the various styles offered. That's good and they can sound awesome in a midi file but understand the RT is not playing a particular instrument in that midi file, it's replacing that instrument with a completely different part generated by Biab. If you're doing cover songs and a midi file has an exact guitar part that is out of the original song, creating a RT guitar part is not going to be that same part. It may or may not work for you. In that case you need a good synth that has good guitar samples to play that part and it's the same thing with your horn parts. Midi horns are difficult and tricky to get to sound good but it certainly can be done. Many times though GM won't cut it because you certainly need more trumpet choices than one or two for example, you need as many as you can get and a big name non GM synth will have horn libraries available that may have 200 different versions of trumpets, fluglels, bones, reeds all of it. That horn library by itself can cost several hundred. To take advantage of all that you have to become expert with how midi works and how the particular synth/sampler you decide to get works. Then you can come up with amazing midi horns.
I know this can get confusing and it may be more info than you need right now but playing midi files and and wanting good sounding horn tracks is not easy or cheap depending on how critical your ears are.
Finally, generating Biab songs using Real Tracks while somewhat related to midi files are actually two different things.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 463
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 463 |
LaurieB,
Years ago, I preferred my SC-88 hard synth to the soft synths. Nowadays, I would never go back with all of the RTs available in so many styles.
However, with some material, I do want to incorporate the original licks or stay close to the original arrangement as much as possible. An example would be 'Laredo Rose' by the Texas Tornadoes.
I purchased a midi file and the accordion riffs sound like the original and I'm using BB's default synth- the Coyote Wavetable.
Regrettably, I never had the time to delve into the art of midi.
Percy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,267
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Laurie if you are looking for a good GM hard synth with really good sounding saxes the look at Ketron’s SD2: http://www.ketron.com/specs_descrit.asp?mod=SD2If you are looking for the best sounding sax synth then look at the Samplemodeling sax package: http://www.samplemodeling.com/en/products_saxophones.phpI am saving for the Samplemodeling package and hope to have it in a month or two. I do have Garritan’s Jazz and Big Band I also am a little disappointed in it. I have yet to get a convincing sax sound out of it. One thing to remember with any midi instrument you should learn about midi continuous controls (CCs), pitch wheel and modulation wheel. As Matt has already mentioned if you expect BiaB right out of the box to write a good sounding sax part you will be disappointed. However you can take BiaB’s sax part, add some CC and wheel(s) data you can get some convincing parts. These controls/wheels are needed in any midi instrument IMHO. If you are just starting out you may want to use Realtracks. You can learn midi as you go along but if you want realistic sounding sax out of the box then Realtracks are the only way to go. I hope this helps.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 21
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 21 |
Many thanks to Matt,Mario,Percy and Bob,
This is just the sort of information I am after and I appreciate you taking the time to type this all up esp,if like me, you need a spell checker!!.
I started out with PTracks as a friend had it and it was cheap. I have since come to the realisation that what I really need is BinB which I will get very soon. Have been doing some online research and it seems to be one of the better programmes -it certainly has the best Forum and support by far which I feel is the decider for me.
However all the hours spend on PT will not be wasted as RB looks very similar. I can see that Midi may one day be superseded by Real Tracks although it is a really powerful tool which you can do some neat things with.
There's no subsitute for a real instrument. I just wish I had gotten onto something a bit easier to play than Trumpet but it's too late in life to swap now and besides I can't sing worth a damn anyway!
I live way out in the sticks, fellow band members are thin on the ground so am looking forward to some backing tracks to play along with to help advance my skills.
Cheers
Laurie
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yes, RealBand is derived from PowerTracks and written by the same author, although I think PowerTracks is still available.
I can't count the number of people who come up to me and say they used to play trumpet. What do they know that I don't?
Good luck.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,109
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if you are mostly interested in good sounding brass, Native instruments' SESSION HORNS is an excellent sound library http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/orchestral/session-horns/You might find that you can live with the other sounds in Coyote forte if the brass sounds the way you want. This library should work with PT, and it definitely works with BIAB and RealBand. The main advantage of using something like session horns is that you can edit and arrange the notes because it's still MIDI However, if you don't need note by note control and mostly want rock solid background instruments that sound totally realistic, the best solution is to buy BIAB in order to get the RealTracks Keep us posted! We'd love to help you get started using BIAB and RealBand!
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Season's Greetings!
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Team PG
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