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So, by any objective standard we might choose the guy has pretty clearly established that he is "good"! Sorry John. The general public doesn’t have a CLUE as to what’s “good” in music. They only dictate what is popular. It’s up to the musicians of the world to suggest what’s “good”. Sorry Bob, but the Grammys and Oscars and other achievements referenced are not decided by the general public. And plenty of musicians love Springsteen. You're entitled to your opinion but not your facts! 
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And BTW I am beyond impressed that you have Merle AND T.Rex in your playlist along with Z.Z.Top, Elvis, Peter Gabriel, Tom Petty and the others. Me too! My friends cannot figure me out because my interests are so varied! Some folks recognize good music when they hear it. Others never try to listen to anything outside of their comfort zone to see if they like something else. I'll give a chance to a HUGE variety of music. And I'm not bashful about saying so if something sucks! That doesn't make it a fact, ... just my honest opinion. (Yes, ... I know I could have just typed JMHO.  I thought I had you figured until I saw T.Rex in your list! I am still listening to The Slider 41 years later!
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So, by any objective standard we might choose the guy has pretty clearly established that he is "good"! Sorry John. The general public doesn’t have a CLUE as to what’s “good” in music. They only dictate what is popular. It’s up to the musicians of the world to suggest what’s “good”. Sorry Bob, but the Grammys and Oscars and other achievements referenced are not decided by the general public. And plenty of musicians love Springsteen. You're entitled to your opinion but not your facts! I've never met a musician who like's Springsteen! I mean REALLY! JMHO, but ..... never mind!
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Once again, one of my posts has turned a thread into a free for all! I know Springsteen is someone who people tend to have strong opinions about, which is why I put the warning on, but it wasn't my intention to stir up trouble.
I have no problems with BobCF and Danny's comments - as I said, it raised a smile. Looking at Bob's playlist, there's lots that we do have in common.
The lyrics to that track interest me. My interpretation is that it's a metaphorical look at dying and who goes first in a relationship, but nowhere can I find any reference to this being Springsteen's intention. I also like the different feel that each of the singers brings to the song and the sax break I find very atmospheric.
Each to his own, but tolerance above all.
ROG.
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It doesn't bother me if someone dislikes Bruce and his music -- it is just an opinion. However whenever I see the words "hate", "kill" about someone you have probably never met, it comes across as sort of unbalanced.
Plus when I read this: "I've never met a musician who like's (sic) Springsteen!", I just think ... hmmm, can't write that here.
Springsteen's songs are not the enemies of your songs. It just irks me that a few folks here go out of their way to tear things down.
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For what it is worth, and maybe not much, but the whole business of who likes and who doesn't like Springsteen is only emphasising the original point of the topic, we all have different views and opinions on which music can be classified as intellectual, or emotional, or both.
Having played some of the music written as contest pieces for brass band, believe me, most will not turn an emotional hair, though the technical detail will if your in to the technical side of music. You soon recognise these pieces are written to test the players of a band, and the band in general, not to amuse an audience.
The band I was in won four first prizes consecutively in four different contests, not many brass bands have done that, especially not at the sectional level the band was at at that time. Did I enjoy that though is the question on an emotional level?
Playing that music, not by much, except it was a good feeling to get a technically difficult part correct. The rest of the music left me unstirred. It was at the announcement when we found we had won the contest that the emotions came fore, which are for an entirely different reason than what any music can provide.
However, when rehearsing and then playing for a concert rather than playing to win a contest, a different thing comes into play, though mainly due to the music in general has been written for an audience to enjoy, then it becomes more enjoyable to play it too.
OK, then a few have dissected the Springsteen piece and in the main I agree that the Springsteen part at the beginning wasn't much for me either, it was very much later that some feeling came out and my addition is that the sax break was brilliant on its own, though I feel a take over after that by a trumpet would have been icing on the cake, but then again I am an instrumental lover, not that keen on the human voice. However toward the end, Patti stirred something just by her own emotional input.
All the above is just my opinion on aspects of music and Springsteen. You can like it, not like it, or totally ignore me. I am getting to old to be that bothered, but anyone who likes it can be my friend any day.
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There are only two types of music in the world, songs that I like and songs that I don’t like; note is said songs and not genres.
The key word there was I. I could give a rodent’s rump what anyone else thinks about it!
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
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excellent article, Noel! And yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to zero in on with this thread. Thanks for posting!
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For what it is worth, and maybe not much, but the whole business of who likes and who doesn't like Springsteen is only emphasising the original point of the topic, we all have different views and opinions on which music can be classified as intellectual, or emotional, or both. excellent tie-in, and I think you're absolutely right! I also appreciate your other observations about competitive music as opposed to music meant to entertain an audience. Interesting insights for sure. On advantage of group discussion is that a much wider set of experiences comes into play, and we get the benefit of other peoples' learning curves. Thanks for posting!
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It doesn't bother me if someone dislikes Bruce and his music -- it is just an opinion. However whenever I see the words "hate", "kill" about someone you have probably never met, it comes across as sort of unbalanced. Ah! Now I see why the reaction was so strong! But as a point of clarification, I don't think Bob used the word KILL in the way you appear to have taken it. I think he used it as a colloquialism for stopping the video. If he had chosen the words "I don't particularly like Springsteen, so I decided to stop the video before it was finished" you probably would not have thought twice about it... but in essence, that's exactly what he said.
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So, by any objective standard we might choose the guy has pretty clearly established that he is "good"! Sorry John. The general public doesn’t have a CLUE as to what’s “good” in music. They only dictate what is popular. It’s up to the musicians of the world to suggest what’s “good”. with all due respects, Bob.. and in the context of what has gone down in the thread so far... your observation about the public's knowledge of music comes dangerously close to declaring your musical sensibilities to be the standard by which all music is appraised. This turn in the conversation really has ended up reinforcing the original point of the thread. Whereas I agree that the musicians of the world might be better qualified to declare what music is performed with technical proficiency (left brain) it is the marketplace of ALL listeners who declare what music pleases them. (right brain) Since people tend to vote with their wallets, financial success *IS* a pretty good indicator of which artists have zeroed in on the mood of their audience. (Which is a completely different thing than declaring which musicians are technically proficient on their instruments) And the fact that in many discussions you have repeatedly taken a similar stance, I would conclude that your own approach to playing (and appreciating) music is very left-brained and technical. Not that you lack an emotional appreciation for music.. we all do... but your PRIMARY musical hemisphere is the left one THAT is what I'm fishing for in this thread.
Last edited by Pat Marr; 06/16/13 09:28 AM.
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Pat,
Originally Posted By: bobcflatpicker
Quote:
So, by any objective standard we might choose the guy has pretty clearly established that he is "good"!
Sorry John. The general public doesn’t have a CLUE as to what’s “good” in music.
They only dictate what is popular.
It’s up to the musicians of the world to suggest
what’s “good”.
with all due respects, Bob.. and in the context of what has gone down in the thread so far... your observation about the public's knowledge of music comes dangerously close to declaring your musical sensibilities to be the standard by which all music is appraised.
Hey, my musical sensibilities are the standards by which I judge all music! LOL.
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IMO....in direct answer to the subject question and not reading every response...
Music is an emotional pursuit coming from one's very personal creative propensity.
On the subject of what's 'good' previously touched upon that's something determined by each individual listener whether they are musicians or not.
Of course, what one may think is good might be mediocre or have little musical appeal or merit to another.
That's my brief take on it.
Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 06/16/13 10:10 AM.
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Since people tend to vote with their wallets, financial success *IS* a pretty good indicator of which artists have zeroed in on the mood of their audience.
(Which is a completely different thing than declaring which musicians are technically proficient on their instruments)
And the fact that in many discussions you have repeatedly taken a similar stance, I would conclude that your own approach to playing (and appreciating) music is very left-brained and technical. Not that you lack an emotional appreciation for music.. we all do... but your PRIMARY musical hemisphere is the left one I do tend to gravitate to skilled musicians, but it’s not always the technically proficient that float my boat. Billy Gibbons and BB King come to mind as two guys I really like that I wouldn’t place very high in a technical sense, but I love hearing them use a handful of notes to speak volumes in a song. Their “soul” comes shining through in everything they play.
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Billy Gibbons and BB King come to mind as two guys I really like that I wouldn’t place very high in a technical sense, but I love hearing them use a handful of notes to speak volumes in a song. Their “soul” comes shining through in everything they play. my thoughts exactly on these same two guys!
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IMO....in direct answer to the subject question and not reading every response...
Music is an emotional pursuit coming from one's very personal creative propensity.
On the subject of what's 'good' previously touched upon that's something determined by each individual listener whether they are musicians or not.
Of course, what one may think is good might be mediocre or have little musical appeal or merit to another.
That's my brief take on it.
Carry on.... Exactly my view point. Thanks.
Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
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MikeK....FYI.
Just so you know the link in your sig (My Music) doesn't seem to work after two attempts so had to go to your profile page.
Good axe work on Moody and In The Mood.
Back to topic....
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This compilation has the potential to be highly useful, the only question is *which* jazz theory book was it meant for? There are about 300 of them!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmhP1RgbrrY...a couple of strong "belts" and I began to understand...after playing in a Dixieland Band for a couple of years, I "tuned into" this guy and all the other NYC and California "progressive cats"
....
from "swing" to "bingo"...and I've been in search of that perfect chord, and a "riff" to go with it...
Heavy-duty Potato-Solid adventure, in my 79 year "adventure" into jazz....
At the other end of the jazz spectrum, the very swingin' Bill Evans doing a tour de force..."April in Paris"! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uywNdD_M_4
Last edited by GDaddy; 06/17/13 04:05 AM.
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Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
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<snip>
This turn in the conversation really has ended up reinforcing the original point of the thread. Whereas I agree that the musicians of the world might be better qualified to declare what music is performed with technical proficiency (left brain) it is the marketplace of ALL listeners who declare what music pleases them. (right brain)
Since people tend to vote with their wallets, financial success *IS* a pretty good indicator of which artists have zeroed in on the mood of their audience.
<snip>
Hi Pat, I would argue that while this would seem to be correct, it is because of an artificial, imposed preference. It is my OPINION that the recording companies have, to a very large extent, dictated the tastes of the buying public by simply not making available anything other than what they want to sell. E.G. where do commercial radio get their source material..? Ultimately we all like what we like (duh), in general people hate change, so once indoctrinated they tend not to change. It seems to me that, for the most part, the people who enjoy music other than that which has been prescribed by the recording companies are those who are reasonably talented musicians themselves. Yet even then there seems to be a large degree of indoctrination still working. Of course, my own narrow minded preferences are in play here too.  Oh yeah, I personally believe there are basically two kinds of musician described in your question but there is, of course, lots of grey: a) Musicians who love to create are, IMHO, more emotionally oriented in their musical endeavours. b) Musicians who are motivated by the "business of music" approach it from a more intellectual perspective: "What does it take to sell songs?" and they work from there. As always, this is just my opinion.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Oh yeah, I personally believe there are basically two kinds of musician described in your question but there is, of course, lots of grey:
a) Musicians who love to create are, IMHO, more emotionally oriented in their musical endeavours.
b) Musicians who are motivated by the "business of music" approach it from a more intellectual perspective: "What does it take to sell songs?" and they work from there. Wise words Lawrie. Music that's created for the sole purpose of selling records is going to be dumbed down to some formulaic concept in order to achieve the goal of selling records. That's probably one of the reasons I love acoustic music so much. Acoustic artists know they're not going to get rich playing acoustic music so they just write and play the best music they can with no consideration for commercial appeal and hope the small number of acoustic fans notice their dedication to creating good music. It works for me as a fan of good music.
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Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
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