Originally Posted By: Lawrie
Hi Mac,
nice bit of info there, thank you.

Got me to thinking though, I wonder if, and maybe how much, those perceptions related to the temperaments in use? E.G. Meantone, well-tempered, equal temperament...


Rimsky K, Scriabin, Mozart and the rest were well after the advent of the well tempered scale. We consider from the middle of Bach's career forward to be the turning point away from the older just intonations and such. And so it was. Consider that many of the compositions after that point featured key modulations that would have been impossible to due and still sound in tune using the older systems. The old pipe organs, being pneumatically powered synthesizers, were rather easily retuned to the Tempered Scale once its efficacy and sound were recognized. Caught. On. Fast.

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On another tack, as a 'bone player I'm well aware that different parts of the range of my instrument have timbre changes inherent in the way they respond to the different partials. So if you pick a key that keeps you basically in the middle octave then you would have one set of sounds, move up so you have some notes entering a higher register and things change, ditto lowering...

The closer to the fundamental the more overtones are present and the richer the sound. The higher up the range the less overtones and the "purer" the sound. I know other wind instruments have a similar behaviour.


Yes indeed. Matter of fact, as a Trumpet player, we often take advantage of not only the different Timbres involved with the so-called "false fingerings" - but because of the fixed tubing lengths that the valves opening into loops yields, it also is used to good effect with intonation. For example, a 4th space E on the Bb trumpet might sound a lot more "classical" using the false fingering of 1-2-0 rather than the standard 0-0-0 fingering for that note. It will sound just a tad sharper, measurable on a pitch determining machine, but also the timbre is typically a bit "thinner". Of course, that's just one example, there are a few. Trombonists often take advantage of being able to play the same written note in different positions to do the same.

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Mac, you might be able to advise here: a piano might also have a similar effect happening? What about when the lower notes cause ringing on the undamped upper strings?
How about differences between using "stretch" tuning and equal(?) tuning?


The Stretch tuning is based on the Equal Temperament tuning, there is a tiny amount of beats added when doing the stretch as you tune the octaves outward away from the middle C octave. Depends on the string lengths and sounding board sizes how far to stretch, but the amount is negligible and has not much to do with what we are talking about in terms of the key signatures here. Stretch Tuning, when done properly, merely adds a bit of a chorusing sound to the thing, because of those slight beats. A spinet piano sounds - and plays - rather like an Ice Cream Truck's broadcasts if it is tuned dead on and not stretched.

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Also on stringed instruments, as you shorten the string there are less overtones apparent which again results in timbre changes...

Don't you love this simple obsession we all have - and how complicated it gets when you try to analyse elements? laugh


Well, yea I do love it.

Wait until I start explaining how the Fibonacci numbers are inside the octave and how they relate to the frequencies, the steps and a few more things. Wow. 0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13, etc.

And to think that old Fibonacci was just trying to count the generations his rabbits would raise...


--Mac

Last edited by Mac; 06/25/13 11:36 AM.
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