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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I see the legal implications of this discussion as being much like the speed limit laws.
Most state troopers won't pull you over for running 5 miles over the speed limit. Sometimes they won't pull you for even more than that.
But there's no way they will ever issue a statement saying that.
The spirit of the law offers flexibility, but it is the letter of the law that stands up in court. The letter of the law is called into play usually when the real issue is something else, and the law needs a technicality to allow them to take further action.
Stated differently, it is highly unlikely that state troopers will ever start to systematically ticket everybody who drives 56mph in a 55mph zone, even though the letter of the law says they could.
But if they suspect a driver is guilty of something else, they can use that as reason to pull him over for further investigation.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
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My two cents is to not push it, pgmusic has proven to be lenient about such issues over the years.
And not "pushing" it works two ways, don't abuse their leniency, either.
--Mac And finally...Mac...I disagree with your "don't push it" advice. This is a matter that SHOULD be "pushed" since the BIAB user community should not be expected or required to keep this all hush hush and somehow operate in stealth mode hoping not to get their chops busted if PG ever decided to make an example of someone who they find to be in violation of the license terms. I see both points here, but I side with Mac. This is one of those cases in which the person with all the rights has shown a willingness to allow some reasonable flexibility. It has been my experience that whenever a clarification is forced in situations like this, the forced conclusion is always the stricter of the two interpretations. This is because to do otherwise limits their control of what they own, and nobody is going to do that. Its like if you owned property, and a neighbor asks if he can drive across part of it as a shortcut to his hunting camp. Whereas the property owner MIGHT privately allow a few people to do so, it would be foolish for him to relinquish control by designating it a right-of-way to the general public. If the hunters forced the issue, the end result is that they would lose the very thing they wanted to get written in stone. Be careful what you ask for.. you might get it.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392 |
Qualifications are IMPORTANT.
I have been a music publisher for 15+ years. In that time, I have been required to enforce copyrights in court on 11 occasions. And my "box score" is 11-0 so I claim far more than average experience on this subject. (But only with respect to U.S. law)
In most areas of the law, there is what is called the "doctrine of laches" which essentially means "use it or lose it". In other words, if someone fails to protect and defend their rights for an extended (but not precise) length of time AND if the defendant is harmed by believing that he can use the "protected" property because no one seems to care, then the defendant can and often DOES present the laches defense.
In that event the courts can rule...and often do...that the defendant was acting in the good faith belief that no harm would come to him by using the property and the property owner LOSES.
I have PREVAILED on that exact point in court so I'm not making this up.
The typical counter-argument to laches is the doctrine of "unclean hands" which holds that if the defendant KNEW he was doing wrong and KNEW that if he got caught he would be punished then laches is offset by the "unclean hands" of the defendant. In otherwords, if you don't come into the court with "clean hands" then you pretty much lose your ability to accuse someone else of having "dirty hands." That is AGE OLD common law in most Western nations.
The bottom line is SIMPLE.
1. Ambiguous contracts are OFTEN declared unenforceable. This thread stands for the proposition the the PG license IS ambiguous in the minds of well-intentioned people on both sides of the debate. For that reason alone, the license language should be clarified.
2. Laches is a CLEARLY available defense to any user who installs and uses BIAB on more than one computer at a time.
I NOTE however, that the availability of a defense and the defense WORKING are two very different things. Among the many things I've learned is that the law isn't what it says in some book but rather what a judge and/or jury SAYS it is on a given day!!!!
I'm over and out on this one folks as I've said my piece AND have BIAB installed on only one machine!!!
And I conclude by reiterating that if PG wants to permit the installation AND/OR use of BIAB on any number of machines but only one at a time, then it should so state CLEARLY to the extent that there are NOT multiple, reasonable interpretations of the langue because if there is, then the licensor is going to LOSE in a very, very high percentage of cases.
Just tryin' to help.
(-:
Jim
Last edited by av84fun; 07/13/13 11:11 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,109
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,109 |
And I conclude by reiterating that if PG wants to permit the installation AND/OR use of BIAB on any number of machines but only one at a time, then it should so state CLEARLY to the extent that there are NOT multiple, reasonable interpretations of the langue because if there is, then the licensor is going to LOSE in a very, very high percentage of cases.
the agreement we all click when we install the software DOES clearly say that it can be installed on one computer That is the binding rule, the letter of the law, the point that would be argued if it ever went to court. If ... it ever went to court
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392 |
And I conclude by reiterating that if PG wants to permit the installation AND/OR use of BIAB on any number of machines but only one at a time, then it should so state CLEARLY to the extent that there are NOT multiple, reasonable interpretations of the langue because if there is, then the licensor is going to LOSE in a very, very high percentage of cases.
the agreement we all click when we install the software DOES clearly say that it can be installed on one computer That is the binding rule, the letter of the law, the point that would be argued if it ever went to court. If it ever went to court Roger that Pat. My point exactly. ONE computer...not one at a time.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,109
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Posts: 8,109 |
Roger that Pat. My point exactly. ONE computer...not one at a time. but its worth noting that the point being made by most of the other people in the thread is that the likelihood of this ever ending up in court is wayyyy less than the likelihood of a copyright infringement ending up in court. Same reason why we all drive 5 miles over the speed limit 
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