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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi guys, really dig BIAB. My uncle Butch has the program and I've been at my cousin's house a lot trying to help my cousin and my uncle learn how to use the program better. We all are big fans of old country music (Hank, Loretta, Patsy, etc) and they want to mainly generate some country styles, to improvise over (my uncle plays lap steel) and to sing over (my cousin Melissa is a great singer). I play drums and a little guitar myself so I'm not much of a use to them when they have all these great drum sounds and beats in all the styles, but I have fun learning the chord changes and stuff.
Some questions I had:
1. How does one completely customize the song form, so we can do say, a longer intro? I tried putting in the chords manually for Loretta's "I'm A Honky Tonk Girl" so my cousin could practice it for karaoke (using one of the RealStyles that has the same "feel" as the song), but it only lets me have a 4-bar intro (the original song as some of you may know has an 8-bar intro). The chords are different throughout the whole intro, so I can't put a repeat in there. Is there a way to manually create your lead sheet so there's not really an A and B section, but just... inputting the chords bar by bar as you go? I sure hope so.
2. Can anyone list the most useful styles for old, classic country? (Specifically Loretta Lynn and Hank?) There are SO many. I think my uncle has the Everything Pak or whatever... it has a ton of RealStyles.
3. When using the Melodist to create a melody to your own chord progression (such as me inputting the chords for "I'm A Honky Tonk Girl"), how do I choose a Melodist style that doesn't sound completely ridiculous over the chords... it defaults to Pop 8ths Eagles or something, and when I deselect "Generate Chords"... it seems like none of the styles remotely sound like old country (on the Melodist track, anyway). The Country 16ths are all too busy. I was hoping to generate a melody that is more "lead vocal" than some crazy jam. Any way to do this?
I appreciate all of your help! We would love to get the most out of this program, and so far we're kind of lost... thanks!
Last edited by major7th; 09/11/13 01:54 AM.
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major7th,
Welcome to BIAB and a great online community. I don't have answers for you, but wanted to say that it's early yet. Hang on a bit and you'll get some great responses.
Be patient with yourself and with the software. BIAB is very deep and can seem somewhat opaque at first. This is a common experience, so give yourself time. Basic song entry is quite easy, but as you answer one question it will raise more, taking you into more and more advanced subjects.
In the meantime you may want to visit the Showcase Forum and see what other users have been doing with BIAB in general and Real Tracks in particular. There are examples from many genres; most are outstanding in some way. I suggest this as motivational and inspirational. If they can do it, so can you!
Regards,
Richard
P.S.: There are a bunch of great tutorials available with the program and from the home page of PG Music. Checking those and the FAQs out might give you some ideas, too.
Last edited by Ryszard; 09/11/13 02:19 AM.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Welcome and hello!
So, I never use the BB intro function.
I always create my own intro.... I use the "unfold into one big Chorus" function and then remove the existing chords and colored markers. By unfolding, you do not need to use repeats, You do however have to have a start to finish chord pattern for the song. This is the ONLY way I work. I can customize the song 100% to what I want.
You didn't mention it, but I do use the BB ending with a 2 measure ending. It works better than trying to make my own endings. I sometimes have to "customize" the measures to make it sound correct.
I set up the intro like I want. It can be 2 measures, 4, 6, 8, or more...if I want. I use the blue/green markers to indicate the verses and choruses.
As far as styles.... man that's a personal choice. I normally only work from the RT indicated styles in BB... ones with real tracks in them. They are the ones that are at the top of the various style lists when you open them and there is a RT's only list in each genre too.
I use the melodist to create songs from time to time. Some of the jazz and Bluegrass stuff was started this way and then I went in and edited it. It has limitations and when I write something original I do not use it. The "crazy jam" you described is typical of what I have found with it so I don't use it when working on my songs.
Once you create something with the melodist, yes, initially, you can only choose from a few dozen preset styles.... BUT, once you have created something with it, you can click on the STYLE and change it to any of the more than 3000 styles in the program.
So, to do a cover of the old classic songs.... open a new song file, unfold the chorus, select the tempo and key, erase the chords in it and remove the blue markers by clicking them until that clear off, then, start inputing the chords to the song...measure by measure. Most of the classics follow a strict structure so once you have the verse and chorus, you can copy and paste to add the following verses and choruses. insert and delete measures if needed, edit the chorus to make a tag and creating a cover song can be done in a few minutes. Select the style you think is close to the original and have fun.
have a listen to some of my music. use the link at the bottom of this post. It was all done in the manner I described above.
If you have more questions, just ask.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 09/11/13 05:49 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks for the replies! This is great.
Can you explain exactly how to "unfold" a chorus or the entire arrangement? Yes, that is exactly how I wish to work, the way you described.
Great songs by the way!
And yes, to the other poster-- it is a VERY deep program, from what I've found... I know the basics and stuff from watching the tutorials but I wish to get really deep into the program. I wish I understood better how the Melodist works and how to get "vocal"-sounding melodies. It seems that it would enhance the original stuff we put together better, than the "crazy jam" type-stuff.
Maybe I'll post another topic about how to use the Melodist, for the Melodist experts.
By the way, from googling, I found that there's a big Yahoo email list community, but it seems impossible to search through and find answers to stuff... is this the main place you guys are posting these days? If so, that's great. Forums to me, are much preferred.
Thanks!
Oh and by the way, my name is Chris. Nice to meet you guys!
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Edit Menu, Unfold (convert to one BIG chorus)
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Welcome Maj7, Click on MY Stuff [above]. You have a P.M.------Leon
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Thanks guys! Yeah, it works great. I also went into the option under Edit that lets me remove the intro completely, so I can make my own in this "one big chorus."
So glad I'm off work today!
Another question I had was.... say I import a midi of a famous country tune. And I'd like to use the melody track (lead vocal) as its own melodist file. So if I input my own chord progression, it would use the parameters and I guess, the same rhythm, but change the pitches to fit my chords? There's gotta be a way to do this, or at least have that lead vocal "guide" the randomness, so the rhythm/phrasing stays somewhat intact?
The Melodist truly baffles me. It seems like I can "train" it to do what I want it to, with all the power it has... what do you guys think?
Thanks!
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Got your message Leon, and I replied! Thanks!
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Another question I had was.... say I import a midi of a famous country tune. And I'd like to use the melody track (lead vocal) as its own melodist file. So if I input my own chord progression, it would use the parameters and I guess, the same rhythm, but change the pitches to fit my chords? There's gotta be a way to do this, or at least have that lead vocal "guide" the randomness, so the rhythm/phrasing stays somewhat intact?
The Melodist truly baffles me. It seems like I can "train" it to do what I want it to, with all the power it has... what do you guys think?
Thanks!
I don't work in that manner so I'm not really sure. Although, in the past, try as I may, I have never been able to get BB or RB to play the melody I wanted it to play. Chords yes, melody no. For me, that is a factor only on the instrumental stuff I compose. In my "normal" songwriting, the melody will be sung by a vocalist so it doesn't matter that it won't play the melody. On the melody in instrumental things, I either play the melody on the guitar, piano or incorporate the melody BB comes up with into the song. Walking in Spring time and Emerald Eyes reflect that method.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Ah, I see. Well sometimes for me, I like to come up with lyrics and I would have hoped the Melodist would help in this manner, but it seems like it's just "solo" style, more than a vocal... though I've read here and there that some people come up with pretty good, "vocal"-style melodies with the Melodist... I just wonder how.
I mean, when I think of melody, I think of lead vocals, especially in country stuff.
If there's a "Melodist" and a "Soloist"... shouldn't they offer different types of melody?
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You need to use a midi track to play a melody you have written. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Ray, I totally understand that.  But I was hoping the Melodist could generate something for me, as I'm interested in writing simple songs but usually have some trouble coming up with an original (but not too complex) melody.
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Melodist creates a chord pattern based on what you tell it with the style you choose.... it throws some chords together and it does create a melody line to be played with those chords.
I use this on some jazz tunes and it works just OK for that. I often have to edit the chords to get close to what I want.
Soloist will create solo tracks for that same melodist creation if I understand it correctly. I have used the soloist once or twice and stopped using it. I prefer to do my own solo work.
None of them will write a hit song for you.
You also have the option to let it choose a title for you.... again, that mostly isn't workable although I have used it.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Major 7th, I have used the melodist and the soloist a few times. However I have never used the leads from either as generated. Like most computer generated lead lines there is no real flow to them IMHO, they kind of jump around too much. However I always find a section or two that sounds good and I extract those and use them as inspirations to complete the song. So some of my lead lines are partly me and partly BiaB.
This is just me and others may or may not agree.
I hope this helps and good luck.
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Thanks, guys! Yeah I'm mainly looking to generate melodies to my own chord progressions. Simply I IV V country-style and folk stuff. Would you guys have a small list of the "best" melodist styles (when you have your own chords first) that generate some decently catchy melodies over simply country and folk progressions? I have found a few... but... it's hit or miss, like he said... some bars generate some nice melodies, but most don't.
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Couple more things that can help you Identify what style to use with
what song.. Something I've done many times is find the song in Youtube.
Get a feel for the original performers sound and music style.
Second, and it takes time, but "Auditioning" styles.
Select country all
got to top left of same window...enter Country
Then click update.
In center window with be a "Raft" of country styles.
Select an interesting one. Select demo at top of screen.
Then hit Play near bottom of styles screen.
Don't like continue. There are styles to fit most of your needs.
Have fun, and good luck!
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Thanks, guys! Yeah I'm mainly looking to generate melodies to my own chord progressions. Simply I IV V country-style and folk stuff. Would you guys have a small list of the "best" melodist styles (when you have your own chords first) that generate some decently catchy melodies over simply country and folk progressions? I have found a few... but... it's hit or miss, like he said... some bars generate some nice melodies, but most don't. I may have said this already....IDK.... Melodist is probably NOT what you should use. Melodist is used to create from scratch chord progressions. It's not useful for creating leads. Soloist will do leads but I have found them to be a bit frantic at times and non-flowing in the way a real guitar player might play. Instead, I use Real Band. Take your project from BB and save it then close it. Then open it in real band. Now, you can add new tracks from the real tracks you have available. Select one of the soloist real tracks and render it. The result might be "good to go" or you might need to do some editing. this song>>>> http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11971116 called The Best Christmas ... is an example I use often because in it, the piano parts and fills are composites of 3 different tracks and the guitar solo in the middle is constructed from 5 different guitar tracks created by real band. With work and editing, you can get some impressive results. But just like when a diamond is first mined it looks like most other rocks, it needs to be cut and polished to bring on the shine, so too with the tracks BB/RB generally gives you. They are rough cuts mostly, and need some work. No computer generated song is going to be ready to roll although I do have to agree that Band in a Box can get mighty close with it's attempts. With a good ear, some software tools, and a good ear, it's relatively easy to find those gems and polish them up a bit.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Hmm, I'll try that... I mean, I know how to edit midi notes and cut and paste in a DAW (used Sonar years ago, and these days I dabble with Reaper)... but I guess I'm looking for more of a "miracle melody solution" which I guess can't be found with the Melodist.
It's a shame that you can't create one of your own custom melody MIDI tracks, and save it as a Melodist "style", and then it intelligently randomizes the phrasing/notes to fit my new chord progression, tempo... changes... etc. You know? Like a generic rhythm, but can make some interesting pitches and such...
I'm still so lost with the program.
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You can do as you suggested in that you can create a midi melody and have it play. But applying the style of the song to it....to variate the phrasing and groove.... no I don't think that will work.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Ah, crap. Well, ok... sigh.
Here's something I discovered though, when it comes to the Melodist...
1. If you disable ALL instances of the "count in" - no lead-in bar, no count in, nothing.... right after you generate a melody with Melodist (but KEEP your chord changes AND keep the style and tempo)... it usually generates a bigger variety of melodies on the melody track.
2. Is there a maximum set of rhythms and phrases that Melodist creates? It doesn't seem to be fully "random." I hear the same melody AND rhythm repeated almost every 4 or 5 times I use Melodist over the same progression (in my case, the "Let It Be" verse chords). I just wanted to see how creative BIAB could get, but it seemed like it had a maximum of 10-12 "melodies" or at least, melody rhythms that it uses. Quite bizarre...
Thoughts?
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
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