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to paraphrase a joke Danny Campo told about Stevie Ray Vaughan:
Q: How many many of the best mandolin players does it take to play at Merlefest?
A: All of them, apparently
(and they sure are )
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Thanks for that, Bob. I had wondered when Sam Bush was going to jump in.
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Good find, thanx for sharing!
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I love me some good mando playing....
I have one and I'm trying to learn to play it like I can play my guitar.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I love me some good mando playing....
I have one and I'm trying to learn to play it like I can play my guitar. If you are willing to step outside the box in order to get "the sound", you can retune the mando to guitar tuning and then you already know how to play it. Guitars have many different tunings... why not mandolins?
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...it's tuned "backwards" from a guitar, so you just have to think upside-down.. 
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...it's tuned "backwards" from a guitar, so you just have to think upside-down.. yeah, but I can't think upside down anymore
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It's hard enough to think rightside up let alone upside down.
I might give that a try though....tune like a guitar.... The tension on the strings would likely be different so I'll need to play with it a bit...
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 09/23/13 08:58 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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It's hard enough to think rightside up let alone upside down.
I might give that a try though....tune like a guitar.... The tension on the strings would likely be different so I'll need to play with it a bit... yeah, in my case the tension ended up being lower than it would have been otherwise. You can tweak that a bit depending on which 4 strings you tune to.. (top 4, middle 4 or bottom 4) I found fingering to be easier tuning to the low 4 strings... otherwise, 1st position D chord puts too many fingers in too small a location. I think you'll find that you're up and running almost immediately PS: I know a lot of guitar players who tune this way... its not as uncommon as one might think
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May I make a suggestion about retuning the mandolin?
Since I’m a guitarist, that idea may sound appealing. But I’ve found that the mandolin in standard tuning actually made more sense than the guitar when you run scales. Plus the chords are easy.
Try putting your mando in std. tuning and playing major scales in G, A, C, D, and E for two weeks and then decide if you need altered tuning to play it. My guess would be that you won’t.
Plus the fact that you can get great mando sheet music/TAB based on std. tuning from tons of great artist’s today.
If you can’t play mando and you need it for one song, then retuning is a logical option. But if you’re going to play mando for more than one song, then my suggestion would be to learn to play it in std. tuning.
It’s easier than you think IF you already play guitar.
JMHO.
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The late great Tommy Tedesco, at one time the first call Studio Guitarist in Hollywood, used to tune all sorts of stringed instruments to the higher pitched string bouts of the standard guitar tuning to bring whatever stringed instruments called for by the composers and arrangers into play.
Mandolin, Tenor Banjo, Bazouki, Balalaika, etc. - were all part of his arsenal.
They did not sound quite authentic, though, for that reason, and I find it to be fun to be able to identify him when viewing older movies, because the instrument parts, while sounding like the target instruments more or less, were full of dead giveaways as to the lack of authenticity. I always say, "Hi Tommy" when I detect that and my wife is still wondering who the heck I'm talking to at the time. It is much like detecting MIDI in a more modern underscore. A Bazouki layin' down rather simplified Chuck Berry lead licks in the middle of a Western...
--Mac
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I've only had access to a mandolin for about a week when a friend let me borrow his Tacoma for awhile.
2nd night messing around on it I broke a string. I ended up re-stringing it and while doing so, I discovered that where he had the bridge piece resting caused intonation issues. It was easy to see where the bridge was located because there was a tan-line on the top.
Buddy rarely played it; he's a collector more than a player (He probably has 20 synths, mostly Roland, in his basement, and at least that many guitars and basses). He's a great bass player, but collector of any shiny bauble musical instrument!
Anyways, I can't remember if I moved it towards the headstock or towards the tail, but it was only about 1/8" that I ended up deciding was best and it was much more fun to play up the neck on it.
I tried both guitar (just the bottom 4 string type tuning) and mando tunings on it. I can't remember which I liked better. Put getting a mando on my life list of instrument acquisitions though.
-Scott
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The late great Tommy Tedesco, at one time the first call Studio Guitarist in Hollywood, used to tune all sorts of stringed instruments to the higher pitched string bouts of the standard guitar tuning to bring whatever stringed instruments called for by the composers and arrangers into play.
Mandolin, Tenor Banjo, Bazouki, Balalaika, etc. - were all part of his arsenal.
They did not sound quite authentic, though, for that reason, and I find it to be fun to be able to identify him when viewing older movies, because the instrument parts, while sounding like the target instruments more or less, were full of dead giveaways as to the lack of authenticity. I always say, "Hi Tommy" when I detect that and my wife is still wondering who the heck I'm talking to at the time. It is much like detecting MIDI in a more modern underscore. A Bazouki layin' down rather simplified Chuck Berry lead licks in the middle of a Western...
--Mac I agree completely with your statement that a mando tuned to match a guitars bottom 4 strings doesn't sound "authentic". About 35 years ago I played with a musician who tuned his mando and fiddle that way and it just didn't cut it. It was even more glaring when someone showed up with a properly tuned instrument. My friend would switch back to guitar when a "real" mando or fiddle player showed up so he wouldn't embarrass himself. I never understood his reluctance to learn those instruments in std. tuning since he was a pretty good guitarist and a decent banjo player. It would only have taken him a few days to get accustomed to the tuning but he was never willing to put just a little bit of effort into it.
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My friend would switch back to guitar when a "real" mando or fiddle player showed up so he wouldn't embarrass himself. this comment says a lot about the way you view this Bob. From where I stand, it looks like you see the traditional standard as the one, true way of doing it... to the point that you would mock someone or expect them to feel foolish if they didn't worship the standard too. but to many people, a standard is nothing more than the most commonly used of many possibilities. I don't think this is just a "Bob" thing.. the purist bluegrass community imposes this thinking on its participants like a religion, and shuns any who dare to deviate from it
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Knowing the bluegrass community, I would think that if a player of any acoustic stringed instrument, mandolin inclusive, who could play the crap out of the thing with strong performance and keep it interesting would have not problem from the bluegrass community at large IF their chosen scordatura (retuning) plus their abilities were capable of such.
"If it sounds good, it is good."
Perhaps the real difference is not in the re-tuning, but in the fact that there are those who attempt to use the re-tuning as a crutch, a shortcut or an attempt to try to fool or mislead their audiences.
The bottom line is that Strong Performance is always rooted in hard work by yourself, and attempts to bypass all those hours in the woodshed are typically bound to fail for obvious reasons.
That said, if we are then faced with no other way to move towards mastery of our chosen instruments, if one is going to spend the long hours and days working hard to meet those goals, they might as well spend that time using the commonly accepted tunings before delving off into the scordatura, crawling, then walking, then running in the natural order.
--Mac
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I think we're having about 3 different discussions here, but I'll attempt to bring the discussion *I'M* trying to have into context:
In the context of this website (Band in a Box, last time I looked), the common denominator is people wanting to make music in a variety of ways, even though they can't play every instrument in the song.
For most of us, if we know the instrument and can play it, we do.
If the song requires specific notes on an instrument we don't play, we have the choice of:
1) doing that part in MIDI and arranging the notes using one of the multiple methods PGMusic has available for doing so, or
2) finding a way to play an unfamiliar instrument with a familiar tuning (assuming you have the chops on the familiar tuning)
3) find another musician to play the part you can't play. But, what makes BIAB so usable by so many is that it is finally possible for one person to actualize a musical idea without help/hindrance from others
and if the part just has to sound fantastic but doesn't need to follow specific notes, RealTracks are the ticket
That's the point *I* wanted to make.
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regarding the age old question of whether tradition supersedes creative license, I'll go with a metaphor:
It is traditional at weddings for the bride to wear a beautiful white gown, and for the groom to wear a tux, and for the wedding to be held in a church attended by a large number of family and friends.
Occasionally a free-thinking couple deviates from that model and does something out of the ordinary like getting married under a waterfall in a state park, wearing flip flops and swimsuits, attended only by a few people.
The point of contrast I want to make is that the young forward thinking people tend to see that as cool, while the stodgy old ladies shake their heads at the breach of tradition.
That pretty much illustrates my thoughts on the true significance of tradition. You can fill in the variables as you see fit.
PS, I like stodgy old ladies, I'm just glad I don't have to live by their rules.
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My friend would switch back to guitar when a "real" mando or fiddle player showed up so he wouldn't embarrass himself. this comment says a lot about the way you view this Bob. Actually Pat, that was pretty much a quote of what my buddy would say when a mando/fiddle player showed up to a jam session. “We’ve got a real mandolin player now so I’ll switch back to guitar so I don’t embarrass myself”. He didn’t consider himself a mandolin or fiddle player. Neither did we. LOL. He would just fake his way through it with the guitar tuning when no mando/fiddle player was present. I somehow knew we couldn’t have a simple discussion of mando tuning without you breaking out a “purist” rant.  As far as it being a “bluegrass purist” thing, just imagine a mandolinist or violinist showing up to audition for an orchestra with their instrument tuned like a guitar! I’m sure the conductor would have a few choice words for them before kicking them out. For the record, I couldn’t possibly care less about how you tune your mando.
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Knowing the bluegrass community, I would think that if a player of any acoustic stringed instrument, mandolin inclusive, who could play the crap out of the thing with strong performance and keep it interesting would have not problem from the bluegrass community at large IF their chosen scordatura (retuning) plus their abilities were capable of such.
"If it sounds good, it is good."
Perhaps the real difference is not in the re-tuning, but in the fact that there are those who attempt to use the re-tuning as a crutch, a shortcut or an attempt to try to fool or mislead their audiences.
The bottom line is that Strong Performance is always rooted in hard work by yourself, and attempts to bypass all those hours in the woodshed are typically bound to fail for obvious reasons.
That said, if we are then faced with no other way to move towards mastery of our chosen instruments, if one is going to spend the long hours and days working hard to meet those goals, they might as well spend that time using the commonly accepted tunings before delving off into the scordatura, crawling, then walking, then running in the natural order.
--Mac As always, very well said Mac. I tried to offer some tips about the easiest and quickest way to get used to a new instrument. Who knew that suggesting playing scales would be controversial? Somehow this thread has reminded me of an old joke about a new piccolo player at church.
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