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.. and I have to disagree with your assumption that 'The vast majority of users (90% maybe?)use one of the basic GM synths.' Easy to say Mal, but do you have any evidence to support that theory? All I see are the same few folks on this forum chiming in whenever the 64 bit topic comes up which is frequently. Look at this thread. Where is the flood of people who agree with you? There's a few, that's it. Now, I do agree with the concept that from a pure marketing and simply looking like Biab is a current piece of software pov they should go 64 bit. You haven't been able to buy a new 32 bit system for several years now, all new computers being sold are 64 bit. The problem is you're not gaining any functionality aside from the high end VST and ram usage thing. Peter asked you if there would be anything else that going 64 bit would improve and you have no answer for that one. It's just VST/ram usage. This takes us back to my original point. There's not enough users who care about that to make the investment worth it. The time and effort involved would be huge for a small company like PGM and they're not seeing a decent ROI. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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So far every request for 64 bit is to use 64 bit plugins. If we add support for using 64 bit plugins within our 32 bit program, via a wrapper solution, are there any other advantages for BiaB to be 64 bit? jBridge should work (most of the time) for this already, as it works both ways. This is from their site: "Using inter-process communication mechanisms, it aims to make it possible to run 32bit plugins in 64bit hosts, 64bit plugins in 32bit hosts, or even bridging 32bit plugins to 32bit hosts, allowing to overcome the memory limitations of a single 32bit process, in this last case." The only problem is it doesn't run all 64 bit vstis equally well, based on what I've been reading. My vote goes for maintaining the current version and fixing it's problems, but then again, all my vstis are 32 bit anyways lol. 
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[quote=malevans]...Biab is a current piece of software pov they should go 64 bit. You haven't been able to buy a new 32 bit system for several years now, all new computers being sold are 64 bit. The problem is you're not gaining any functionality aside from the high end VST and ram usage thing. ...
This takes us back to my original point. There's not enough users who care about that to make the investment worth it. The time and effort involved would be huge for a small company like PGM ...
Bob Hi Bob, I appreciate your reply and the conciliatory way in which it was presented. I think your assumptions are basically correct. However, the reality is there might not be enough users who care, because potential new users do care about VST/ram usage. I doubt that too many new users would be enticed by the prospect of Coyote WT being their go to instrument of choice. People buying 64 bit new PC's with 32gig ram, high end in audio interfaces, are wanting much more than what's on offer. Yes, you can polish it in a DAW, but once you get used to good sound you usually don't go back to the ordinary. People want to load both 32 and 64 bit Vst's, to achieve sounds equivalent to what is the acceptable norm these days, because times have moved on. I agree, it's probably an issue of cost that has hindered real development of BIAB, it's uniqueness is what keeps it afloat. However, I'm not sure the next generation of users will be as sympathetic to its short comings. Col ps. I've upgraded for the Real Tracks and Super Midi and will do the same next update, I'm thankful for any improvements, BIAB is a great program, I've been enjoying it for around 20 yrs, but it could be so much better.
iMac, 3.7 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i5, BIAB MAC2024 (802), Audient iD4
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I think a lot of this is realy fussin about nothin"
Really BiaB is not a full on DAW program, and really only runs what 6 tracks at a time tops. I don't think anyone will run out of ram on that regard.
PG includes a nice Sampletank program, and my Kontakt is both 32 and 64 bit, as is my sampletank, and most of my plugs load both version, and then the 32 bit can run in BiaB and the 64 bit version in whatever DAW needs it.
I bet that someday it will evolve that way. but it is a very powerful and useful program as it stands.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have been using jBridge since its inception.
It's great for loading 32 bit to 64 bit but do you really think that loading 64 bit in to BB would work.
Imagine loading ... let's say LA, strings, Vienna Grand, Trillian Bass, AGM Martin Guitar, Superior Drummer and Omnisphere Choirs.
NOW PRESS PLAY.
Did it work?
Mal
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I'm using 24 gig ram and no way will that work.
It does work in a 64 bit DAW beautifully, with no latency issues whatsoever.
Last edited by malevans; 12/02/13 02:57 PM.
Mal
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yeah i see what you mean on that side of it. Are you using BiaB as a live performance tool? I ask cause if you are I can really see your point. I don't i use RB, and that allows me to bounce down to audio files and mix the song file from that point and it saves a lot of power that way.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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I think a lot of this is realy fussin about nothin" No, I don't think it is. Just like asking for greater VST support as opposed to Dxi wasn't "fussin about nothing". VST3 and beyond is where things seem to be heading at the moment, which is based on 64 bit technology. Col
iMac, 3.7 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i5, BIAB MAC2024 (802), Audient iD4
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Touche' gotcha. I guess VSTi is still not fully implemented as far as it could be either.
I guess this is the reason so many of us still have cutting edge DAW software to compliment BiaB. To me it is a creation tool not a finishing tool, like a saw and hammer not a sander.
Hmmm Biab and Rb for that matter has come a long way so far. I bet it keeps going and we will see some of this addressed.
What one of us needs the other does not, so i guess we can't have it all just yet. But it is not wrong to ask. I certainly ask for some stuff in another post, so your wants and needs are just as important as anyones. Keep asking that is why we have what we do have. the PG folks do want to put out a great product.
Thanks for that little piece of clarity for me.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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..... but that is just it Robh.
It is a creation tool BUT it could also be a finishing tool. Just imagine doing the whole thing in BB only.
No ... I only use BB to write material. My live gigging is very rare these days and then only vocal and guitar. I love writing material though.
Mal
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Mal i think there is where yours and a few other frustration begins. There are some that want to finish a project in BiaB, but i do not think that was ever the intent of the program. It never was a DAW in the strictest since. It has always been marketed as auto-generation/accompaniment program. A creation tool, and a learning tool. That is why they build first Powertracks, and now RealBand. They are DAW software packages. Where one can take a BiaB creation and polish it up. RB is still young, and will grow hopefully, but for now if you want big time finishing tool you have to go to a deeper DAW package.
A good indication i am right on this is the fact that BiaB Mac still has no RB, and folks there are suggested to port over to something like garageband for finish creations.
Sure you can finish in BiaB, but that is like competing in the indy 500 in a stock corvette, fast yes, but not compared to a formula one car.
I certainly understand your views, and see what you are asking. But i believe you have a very long wait for what you want, if ever.
Our good friend Zero Zero has asked for a couple years now to blend BiaB and RB. IMHO he is missing the big picture here, and maybe you are as well. (maybe i am for that matter, it wouldn't be the first time) RB is that blend! A true DAW with the creation tools of BiaB added and True DAW features like FX busses, automation (now somewhat) Multiple tracks, and much more.
There is where your growth focus should be. If you want world class DAW tools from PG ask them to be added to RB. Not only does it blend the feature set of BiaB and Powertracks, it seamlessly opens BiaB files with out drop and drag. Just save, close BiaB, and open RB, open the file and it is all there ready to polish to your hearts content.
I appreciate your dialog, and i hope you do so in return. Regards, Rob
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Had to chime in as I found myself smiling at the "to-and-fro"...interesting thread to me as this is a very representative "customer - supplier" conversation. (I'm a Boeing systems integration project manager, work with "demanding" customers every day, and have to facilitate trade-offs between suppliers and customers constantly).
The "Customer" knows what s/he wants (needs?)- and almost always represent a value-add to other customers as well.
But the supplier has many customers with an evergrowing list of requirements ("needs").
Given available resource (cost) and a yearly (or bi-yearly) schedule constraint (e.g. 1-to-2 releases/year), the supplier must prioritize "features" to develop and deliver (scope) to deliver the maximum cost/benefit (revenue, margin) needed to first survive, and, ideally, grow.
Bottom line: I am purchasing the "EverythingPak" after working with Biab2013 though I really, really would prefer a BiaB that was x64, Windows 7, way better GUI, much stronger stylemaking (pattern creation) and "Mixing" capabilities.
Why? Because it's a tool that is one of several that aids and abets creation. Motif with its Performances, Arpeggiation and Pattern creation functionality; Reason with its toolkits and Cubase with its great production-oriented tools.
Biab is not likely to ever be the "one ring that rules them all" - so what? Like the growing MIDI Superstyles, like the RealTracks with Notation; really dislike several aspects of it. So I don't use it for that.
Cheers, love the forum and the passion.
Last edited by MotleyFool; 12/02/13 07:03 PM.
Cheers, Mike.
BiaB 2026 UltraPak, Cubase Pro 15, Ableton Live 12, NI Komplete 15 Ultimate.
Yamaha P515, Yamaha Montage M, Yamaha Tyros 5, Komplete Kontrol S49 MKII, Maschine MKII, Electric Guitars/Bass/Violin
Windows 11 Pro, i7, 64GB RAM, 6TB SSD.
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I work at a CPA firm so I'm a profit and loss business type in addition to being a musician.
This boils down to a business decision. I still have not seen any evidence at all to suggest that there is a significant portion of the user base who cares one whit about this.
Imagine the meeting:
One side of the table is PG, a VP and the Director of Marketing. On the other side of the table are the software developers.
Question for the developers: How much will it cost to rewrite the entire program to 64 bit?
Answer: A lot.
Question to the Director of Marketing: Do you see enough additional sales in the next three years to justify that expenditure?
Answer: I don't know or, our surveys show probably not.
Question: So why should we spend this inordinate amount of money considering if we can't recoup it plus make a profit we might go out of business?
This is pure speculation and touches on the inner workings of the company that none of us know anything about so lets stop spending Peters money and enjoy what we have now.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Hi Rob, I do not have the ‘finishing in BiaB’ frustrations as maybe a few others however I am a proponent for 64 bit BiaB. Whatever BiaB does I hope that they never combine BiaB and RB. BiaB is not a finishing product.
My frustration is with not having the ability to use my really good sounding 64 bit VSTis. As an example take say a string ensemble, piano or pad part using Sampletank. Now take the same track(s) and play them with MS’s internal sound chip. They sound lousy don’t they. That is the type, although not quite that bad, of thing I experience when going from BiaB to my 64 bit VSTis. Sampletank is 5-6 years old and newer VSTis sound much better, however they require a lot more ram. I hope I explained this good enough.
The world is moving or has moved to 64 bit. Every music software company that I know of is moving or has moved to 64 bit with the exception of PGMusic. I pray that they are not limiting their potential customer base by staying with 32 bit. I say that as I have had a couple of discussions with people who will not even look at a 32 bit program regardless how good that program may be.
OK, a random thought;
Why does toilet paper need a commercial? Who's not buying it?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Mario that is a very fair evaluation on your part, and i really understand it. I would be happy to see 64 bit development for those very reasons. I also agree never take BiaB in the direction of a main stream DFAW workstation. It was never meat to be that. I think Mal is on this page as well from what i read. He seems to use it for creation and wants better VSTi's
That has been at root one for a while, the jamstix issue is now bleeding over to the 64 bit conversation. VSTi tech in this program is behind the times for sure.
But please do not try to turn BiaB into cubase, or sonar, those programs have enough issue on there own imagine adding generation tools to that mess.
Just refine Rb with a few more real cool tools, and more stability, and touch up the new look BiaB and add more RTs RDs, SMT, and such.
I can't wait to dive into user tracks, and synth vocalist.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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The number of posters in the BIAB forum is very small compared to the number of BIAB users. There are thousands of users out there. Many of them who probably use BIAB like I do, for accompaniment on gigs and who could care less whether BIAB is 64 bit. I do many solo gigs and BIAB makes me sound like a trio. If BIAB goes to 64 bit then I'm happy for you. Meanwhile, BIAB, as is, functions just fine for me. As I mentioned in another post, can't wait for the Ron Carter and Lewis Nash Real Tracks. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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It is a great debate guys and i'm still frustrated at some responses. Cough, cough. Maybe some business models never get off the ground because of caution. They will always remain middle of the road. I tried finishing a project in RB. It didn't happen. It never could happen. Not as a 32 bit software program. It crashed constantly. It is buggy now and always has been. If RB went 64 bit then it only seems logical to include BB. I feel sure most would concur. As an artist I hope my creative and perceptive responses guide me to new and diverse chains of thought, ultimately, to a better and more fulfilling end product. I am an Artist. That is, I paint, draw etc. I'm also a singer, songwriter. Not bragging, I just am. I taught and lectured for 25 years and left because I felt I was falling in to an administrative role as a Department Head and was not giving enough to my students. The education system was being cluster ****** by incompetent politicians. Now I just enjoy being creative ............ but I always am thankful for those tools that make the exploration easier. That isn't selfishness on my part because my students always kept in touch. At least I hope it didn't come across that way. 
Mal
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@raymb1 .... A 64 bit version might make you sound like a full orchestra.
Mal
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LOL Any more than having bass and drums would make me feel like I had a karaoke machine. I could have used BIAB back in the disco days when I had a six piece band, to beef up the horn parts. Now-a-days, having bass and drums is enough for me. Makes a solo gig go by quickly. Later, Ray
Last edited by raymb1; 12/02/13 08:54 PM.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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First up, sorry for the long post.
However, here are some posts from "regulars" back in 2009.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
1) Most VStis will work, there are a few with timing issue that do not work inside RB, and BiaB. But i would bet Kontact will work, but it might suffer from the difficultlies that bandstand has. I had better sucess with sampletank.
2) I hope you don`t mind me saying that when BIAB was first developed it was built round the creative AWE soundcard and it even had a AWE editor within the software so really BIAB still runs the best with a GM based sound card or a GM based softsynth and now the GM based SD2 hardware module
You can use any of these modern samplers or Romplersor what ever they may be called but the work level increases so much its not worth it i have just been trying for the past week to get Kontact 2 with garrin BB&JB to work and i have had not a lot of luck it will play the backing tracks ok but will not play the melody and the soloist tracks with out problems if you have the patiece and the time you may get it to work ok but i got fed up and packed it in
it is so simple with a GM based sounds that you just load your tune and press play and then the next and so on with Kontact you have to set each tune up every time which to me is a pain and to me the SD2 is better sounding then most if you don`t have the ability to program these new software programs like Kontact to make them sound better then the SD2.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Arent't you glad PG Music didn't take the, "there's nothing wrong with it... we don't need it... 64 bit will never fly... costs to much.. yada yada..", approach a few years ago. Just imagine what you'd be stuck with today.
Things move on, well good things do, that's how they get to be good.
Col
iMac, 3.7 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i5, BIAB MAC2024 (802), Audient iD4
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— Team PG
Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
If you're already using RealBand 2026 for Windows, download build 10 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® users: Build 1237 is now available!
Already a Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows user? Stay up to date and download the build 1237 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
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