PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Woodshedding - Learning to Play! WHAT IS DIFFERENCE 3/4 AND 6/8 TIME?

I can't find any source that says that 6/8 is anything but a duple meter. If you find one, let me know. Everything I have read about America is that it is a measure of 6/8 time followed by a measure of 3/4 time.

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Your post is slightly inaccurate. It says that the meter does not change and this is false. In this song the meter changes from duple to triple. The time signature is 6/8 and this is the thing in this song's rhythm that does not change.

It may be that what needs to be is the distinction between "meter" and "time signature." In the example posted here, both yours and mine, there is ONE time signature and TWO alternating meters in alternating measures.

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Here is a guy having fun with alternating duple and triple meters in the African tradition.

I just grabbed one that used simpler terminology. The meter does change from duple to triple which means the time signature alternates between 6/8 and 3/4. I guess we are just going to have to disagree on this one. America by Bernstein

The person you are disagreeing with is Leonard Bernstein. The sheet music I posted was published by him, not me.

Kemmrich is correct that the 6 = Simple Duple time.

9 and above would be Compound Duple.


My bad, for typing it above in my explanation.


The TRIO section of many Sousa Marches exhibits the use of 6/8 as Simple Duple march time, where each of the two march "steps" is divisible by three's.


--Mac

The Bernsteing "America" example uses BOTH because of the Time Signature changes.

One bar of each in succession.


Really not a good example for teaching somebody the basics, eh?


Just serves to further confuse IMO.

The fellow asking about the basics of Primary Colors just wants ROY G BIV, not folks going off on how many of the various hues may be recognizable by the human eye or possibly worse yet, how many YOU can see as versus others... KISS



--Mac

Just to be clear, that sheet music was not written by Leonard Bernstein (probably). It is a piano/vocal transcription from the original score (probably). The main giveaway is that the song tempo is not marked as "Tempo di Huapango". Although I can't say this is the original, but if you scroll down to score page 175 (or 181 in the go to page box) here, you will see that marking. I didn't mean for this discussion to go so far sideways -- but that happens sometimes.

The only time I've run into this being an 'issue' is setting metronome BPM coupled with note value in my DAW software / using pre-recorded drum loops / and setting the correct numerator/denominator.

With my current DAW, I have to be within 20% or so of the correct BPM in order for the time stretching/compression to sound decent - might even be less than that, I've never done the math.

I will tap tempo in either correctly or 100% off, which one finds out pretty danged quick!

-Scott

It's been a busy year. I haven't posted for months and was only going to wish everyone a Merry Christmas but this thread caught my attention. I thought I might try to add some clarity the discussion.

Before I start what might be turn into a short novel,the short and simple answer to the original question "what is the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 time?"...is [b]3/4 time means there are 3 beats to the bar and 6/8 time means there are 2 beats to the bar. That's it!

So to my "novel"

Mac is right...you need to know the correct terminology and most importantly how the notes are grouped, to be able to identify the time signature of a bar of music or a whole piece.

You need to know that in Simple Time, the beats are plain,undotted beats be it crotchets(quarter notes),
minims(half notes) or whatever and can be subdivided into groups of 2

In Compound Times, the beats are dotted beats, dotted crotchet(dotted quarter notes), dotted quavers(dotted eighth notes), etc and can be subdivided into groups of 3

The correct terminology for Simple Times:

2/4 time is called Simple Duple Time, there are 2 crotchet(quarter note) beats to the bar.

3/4 time is called Simple Triple Time, there are 3 crotchet(quarter note) beats to the bar.

4/4 time is called Simple Quadruple Time, there are 4 crotchet(quarter note) beats to the bar.

C stands for 4/4 time as well and is also called Simple Quadruple Time.

We are all taught that the top number tells us how many beats are in the bar and the bottom number tells us what type of note gets 1 count. This is fine for Simple Time but not for Compound Times.

When I first introduce a piece in 6/8 time to a student and ask them what time do they think it is in, I know they are going to say "6 quaver (eighth note) beats to a bar". They are always puzzled when I say no...there are 2 dotted crotchet(quarter note) beats to a bar.

I go on to explain that this is a Compound Time, that there are 6 pulses in the bar, (thus the 6 on the top) but the 6 pulses are grouped into 2 dotted beats, each dotted beat having 3 pulses each.

I often use the analogy of 2 paddocks with 3 cows in each paddock, then tap the Duple rhythm counting 123 while left hand taps once only, and 456 while the right taps only only. The emphasis must be that while there are 6 pulses there are only 2 beats.
(Sometimes it's easier for younger students to count 123,123 or 1&u, 2&u or even something like but-ter-fly, but-ter-fly. Anything to make sure there are only 2 beats)


The correct terminology for Compound Times:

6/8 is called Compound Duple Time, there are 2 dotted crotchet(quarter note) beats to the bar.

9/8 is called Compound Triple Time, there are 3 dotted crotchet(quarter note) beats to a bar.

12/8 time is called Compound Quadruple Time, there are 4 dotted crotchet(quarter note) beats to a bar.


Often theory exams have bars of notes with no Time Signatures and students are asked to add the correct time signatures. The students need to know how the notes are grouped to be able to work out the time.

The "America" example discussed here shows clearly 2 different groupings of the quavers(eighth note). The 5th bar in the right hand, the quavers(eighth notes) are grouped into 2 lots of 3. This can only be 6/8 time. The next bar in the Left hand, the quavers(eighth notes) are grouped into 3 lots of 2 quavers(eighth note). This can only be 3/4 time. Nothing else!

The 6/8 time signature at the beginning of the example posted just means that overall the main time of the piece is 6/8.
The 3/4 bars add the energy and rhythmic variety to the piece. (Skillful writing!)

Whew! I think that's it. I can take of my "school marm" hat now. LOL

Oh, and Merry Christmas everyone!

Not trying to hijack the thread but all this talk about 6/8 reminds me we still don't have a good 6/8 in BIAB for tunes like I Still Have The Blues. On my wishlist for 2015 for sure.

Merry Christmas all,

Try,

RealTrack:

=HDRKWLZ.STY


Really good MIDI synth:

CC_NICKL.STY

=HDRKWLZ.STY

CC_GOO.STY


--Mac

Thanks sixchannel for asking this question!

There have been far more answers than I would have ever thought possible. One things for sure, time signature and meter are more complicated than they appear on the surface.

All the responses have been great to read; I'm learning so much.

What a great informative post thankyou for taking the time to explain this