PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Performing for Nothing, your views?

Responses to various posts...

The money:

If you are going to make a living playing music you have to think of the money. It's the nasty side of the business.

But I suppose that's the same with many professions, teachers, dentists, carpenters, fishermen, and so on.

Thinking of the money usually makes you more commercial. We learn the songs our audience requests whether or not they would be our first choices or even if they would be near our last choices of new songs to learn. We show up on time, appropriately dressed for the gig (whether it's Hawaiian Shirt to Tuxedo), watch the audience and choose songs to pace them appropriately, and do whatever it takes.

The law:

Unlike the grocery store, we don't have the clout to make the exploited stop playing for free.

Unlike the publishers, ASCAP/BMI, Disney and record companies we don't have the deep pockets to 'bribe' the lawmakers to pass laws on our behalf making it illegal.

No it's not against the law for someone to come to your day job and offer to do it for free one day a week and have you take a 1/5 cut in pay either, but would you like that?

Do unto others.

If you are willing to steal work from your brother and sister musicians, are you OK with other people stealing work from you?

How about if your job gets outsourced to China or Latin America? There is no law against that either.

But that doesn't make it right or ethical.

The Union (AFofM):


I belonged to the union for many, many years. But in the 1970s the Union, was at it's lowest point that I have seen. All they wanted was your dues and the didn't want to provide any services.

Example 1:

We were on the road, playing union clubs, with union contracts, and with union authorized booking agencies. That meant we were in each town for a 2 week with options contract, usually picking up the option and playing the month. We played a club that clearly had financial trouble (the owner was putting the profits up his nose) and didn't get paid the first week. He said he'd pay us both weeks at the end of our second. That didn't happen.

We went to the Union who refused to sue the club owner because the case wasn't precedence setting (whatever they meant by that) and advised us to get our own lawyer. We were on the road and our next gig was a couple of hundred miles away. Needless to say we never got paid, the agency dropped the club, and we had to pay our work dues anyway.

Example 2:

We were the house band at a big hotel on Miami Beach. On the weekends they would bring in big acts from the past - not exactly has-been acts, but not on the top of the charts either. 1960s acts in the early 70s like Little Anthony, The Shirelles, The Association, plus some headliner acts not big enough for stadiums like The Blue Notes and so on. They'd play 2 sets on the weekends and we'd play before, during and after.

The union man came in one night and told us to stop playing. We asked why and he said that there was a non-union band playing a wedding downstairs. We asked him a number of questions including "Are you going to get Little Anthony and his band to stop playing?" and his answer was that Anthony and the band were not in the Miami Local so he wasn't going to do anything of the kind.

We told him we would not stop playing unless the headliner acts were also banned from playing, and so he said we would face a heavy fine. We then told him we were quitting the union, he said you can't do that except on the anniversary of your joining, when your next yearly dues were due. So we didn't pay the fines, didn't pay work dues, sent in letters of resignation with the reasons stated, and that was that.

Where I live now, there is no reason to join the union, it actually hinders you - as they ask the person who hires you to contribute to the retirement fund - and with freebie musicians stealing work, what we don't need is to cost even more money to get hired.

The music business has never been easy. The small bands are small businesses existing in an ever-changing climate. Most small businesses fail in the first 5 years. You have to assess your local market, be competitive with your fellow musicians, but do a better job than your friends.

We have a lot of things that keep us working, great vocals (Leilani is truly outstanding), great sax playing (I was best in the state each year I was in school), excellent crowd pacing, and constant adaptability. Simply put, we put out a better product that most of our competitors. But we do not undercut them to get gigs. I think they would no longer be our friends if we did that, and definitely would lose their respect. Besides, we don't have to do that, in fact, we charge a little more than most.

In this business, you get what you deserve, and by doing things a little better than the average, we can charge a little more. In other words, we charge more because we are worth more.

You get as much as you are worth -- draw your own conclusion.

I suppose the open mic nights are here to stay. Fortunately that doesn't apply to us any more than the "Karaoke Jocks" and DJs do, people still pay for quality - but a lot of the other musicians in town are suffering for that.

Karaoke Jocks = singers who don't play an instrument but rely on karaoke tracks.

We had representatives from a country club we've never played at before (there are many, many CCs here in FL), and the comment was, "You actually played real instruments". They hired us, and we bargained for a price higher than they were accustomed to paying.

We get paid a little more because we are worth a lot more. I don't approve of undercutting or playing for free, but I guess that's me and my views aren't going to change the world.

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