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We intend to hook up 2 R16's to get 16 tracks. In order to get a good isolation between the tracks we would record one instrument at a time. This would demand us to first record a cue track and then record a single instrument one at a time. When that was done we could reuse the cue track. Each player could then perfect his track (at home if he'd like).Would this be a way to go? Or do you see any problems?
Strat
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What are you going to record to? The R16's or a computer?
I'm not saying you can't do it, but at first glance the R16 has no digital connection to sync them together. So getting two of them to play nice may be problematic.. check that out before going this route.
Otherwise you'll have to export the tracks from the R16's to a DAW and try to sync them there, so you may as well record in a DAW to begin with.
Need more details on your plan.
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Another thing to think about is feel. If everyone records their own part separately, it may not sound as good as a few of them recording it live together.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
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Assuming you are referring to the Zoom R-16 - it is a stand alone 16 track recorder. If you are recording each track individually,one at a time, there is no need to use two separate units. The R-16 also has a built in metronome with a count in so there is no need to give up a track for a cue track. There are two banks of 8 tracks each. The isolation between tracks is sufficient to record multiple inputs at once for instruments that plug in such as keyboards, electric guitars, electric bass, etc. Mic'd vocals and instruments you want to avoid cross feed may be recorded individually to isolate them. Backing vocals would not be as critical and may actually sound better with some cross feed between tracks. Individual taste.
The R-16 is designed to sync two units together via a USB connection without the need of a computer. It has two usb connections so be careful to use the correct one and that the sync connection is enabled by the menu. If you have two units, you have access to 32 tracks in four banks for your final mixdown.
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The R16's are meant to be daysie chained (via USB) though Zoom warns that there is a 1 to 2mS delay! I'm aware of the problems that may arise when layering track by track, but isn't that what is normally done in studios? We're recording in our rehearsal room and have too much bleed through to be able to rerecord a single track! The old track cannot be totally erased because it bled through the other tracks!
Strat
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If you're looking for 16 tracks, unless they're going to be stereo tracks,why do you need to have two R16s? A single R16 already has 16 tracks available for recording. Why not just use one?
Now, if they are going to be stereo tracks, yes, you'll need to have two, but this also begs the question, do you really need two?
If you're going to do the final mix down on the computer with a DAW, you can record a cue track and seven stereo audio tracks, then copy the stereo audio tracks to a DAW on a computer, and then leave the cue track and record another seven stereo tracks, move them to a computer, and record two more stereo tracks. That gives you sixteen stereo tracks. As long as you leave the cue track in place, I don't see the problem.
Remember, the R16 is not limited to eight tracks of recording, however it IS limited to eight tracks of simultaneous recording. You said you were going to record each track separately, so you can record your cue track and 15 more tracks on one unit.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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The R16 can record, simultaneously, 8 tracks, for the drums alone we need 6-7 tracks, if we end up record one track at a time for the other instruments you're right but then you'll have to disconnect the drum microphones, tamper with the pots, all in all it's much neater with two R16s :-)
Strat
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The R16 can record, simultaneously, 8 tracks, for the drums alone we need 6-7 tracks, if we end up record one track at a time for the other instruments you're right but then you'll have to disconnect the drum microphones, tamper with the pots, all in all it's much neater with two R16s :-)
Strat The way you described it,that is what it sounded like you were going to to, one instrument at a time, at home, even. However, I would still record one instrument at a time, even if it is 6-7 tracks, then transfer it to a DAW on a computer, mix down the tracks on the computer, and put them back as one mono track on the device, and then let the next person do their part, import that track to the DAW, mix it down with the previous tracks to a mono track, and then send it on to every person until all the tracks are recorded. Then, you'll have all the individual track or sets of tracks in the computer DAW and you can mix all of them down to your final mix there. But, that's just me. G
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Do you already own the two R16 units? I know you already have one. However, if you don't already have the 2nd one, I would shelve the idea of adding the 2nd one and just go for a recording interface that can do the whole lot at once. Like a Focusrite 18i20, or a PreSounus 1818VSL.
It's an extra $100 over a 2nd R16, that will save you many headaches and tweaks. Now with that said, you do have to consider how many mic preamps you need at once, etc.
To do a zero new investment solution, I would take a slightly different spin on Gary's great idea above:
1. I would record the whole band as a two track scratch track - keep the takes where there's a great vibe going on. Transfer to DAW.
2. Then use those takes as the cue tracks (hopefully your DAW has latency compensation) for your individual instrument recordings, straight into the DAW using the single R16 as an interface, with 8 available mic preamps and channels to record at once. That's a pretty high channel count. Use one pass for your 6-7 channels for the drums, then you can do another pass with the other folks. Might need a third pass to catch up all of the rest. If they are direct instruments like keys, and usually bass, then you can actually have everyone playing along with the cue track and there's no harm done.
Last edited by rockstar_not; 06/23/14 07:25 PM.
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Rockstar_not, I did not understand your setup completely since both the Focusrite 18i20 and Presonus 1818 VSL have the same number of analog inputs (8) as the R-16. The additional inputs are 8 channels of ADAT, 2 channels of S/PDIF so additional input sources would be necessary to benefit using either unit. Also, Stratocaster is not clear whether they will be using any type of DAW. It sounds more like they plan to record direct into the two R-16's.
If that is the case, I suggest they use one R-16 to direct mic the drums and rather than sync the two r-16's - mix the drums and feed this submix through the stereo outs into a stereo channel input of the second unit. They could record 6 inputs live with the drum stereo feed. If all 8 inputs were not needed for the drums, they could use an input from the first r-16 to record the bass and submix it into the stereo feed to the second r-16 while also recording the drums. Once the drums and bass are on the second unit in stereo, the first unit tracks can then be saved and the 8 input could be used with di's to split the background vocals and send a stereo double to the second r-16 and leave six inputs still available for other vocals or instruments. Good mic selection, mic placement and instrument placement would assist with isolating the inputs. Just my thoughts on this. The r-16's really give them all the recording options they should need to record their band. If they really feel the need to record 16 channels at once, their best option would be to rent a Presonus 16.4.2.
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Rockstar_not, I did not understand your setup completely since both the Focusrite 18i20 and Presonus 1818 VSL have the same number of analog inputs (8) as the R-16. The additional inputs are 8 channels of ADAT, 2 channels of S/PDIF so additional input sources would be necessary to benefit using either unit. ... If they really feel the need to record 16 channels at once, their best option would be to rent a Presonus 16.4.2. Good catch and good point. The 16.4.2 might be a stretch to learn while renting, however. I've had some time with one at work, and I wouldn't want to have to learn it while paying to learn it! The R16 seems to be a pretty good deal if the mic preamps are fairly quiet. I'm a fan of Zoom gear. I love my Zoom G5, and at church I use a Zoom B3 amp simulator to make my rather pedestrian cheapo bass come to life. -Scott
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I agree Scott. The 16.4.2 would only be necessary if they actually needed 16 channels at once, which is not likely. Stratocasters band appears to be where so many have been with a loud band in a bad room using the limited equipment they have on hand. Ouch!
I like Zoom products too. The pre-amps on the R-16 are plenty quiet enough for most general home recording enthusiasts with the greatest limitations being you have to watch input levels closely for clipping and the faders are quite coarse for mixing. If I recall correctly, the R-16 was also limited to 44.1K 16/24 bit whereas the R8 and R24 both could record at 48k.
Stratocaster could eliminate all of the recording issues by creating his song with BIAB, including vocals and backing vocals then have the band members record and replace the BIAB track with their instruments one at a time. They could include BIAB instruments they don't play and would have a professional sounding demo with no noise or bleed.
Last edited by c_fogle; 06/24/14 07:14 AM.
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FYI! We already have two R16s, and would like to do some semi-permanent setup. And you're right in assuming that we would use these two R16s as recorder and not include any daw until mix/mastering. The nice thing about using two R16s is that that we don't need to adjust levels over and over, the same instruments always use the same physical inputs! The 2mS delay between the two R16s, doesn't seem to be a big deal! (Wonder, though, why zoom hasn't made a genuine 16 track recorder :-)
Strat
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Your mention of the 2Ms delay made me remember they can indeed be sync'd. I'd forgotten.
The slight delay can be adjusted later in any DAW if it ever becomes a problem.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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