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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2014
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I'm having fun with BiaB, especially trying out patterns through various style, just to see what turns up. Mostly jazz and smooth jazz styles, but a bit of everything. And listening to several RealTracks playbacks it occurred to me this IS very much like a real band - the drummer is too $%@* busy (just like 80% of the (purportedly) LIVE drummers I've worked with over the years. Worked great with B3 duo; piano bar dinner jazz - not so much...)  And yes, I have tried the dumb-down options. But one of the things I have LOVED about working single with iPod tracks of my own is - I get to keep all the tips! er, I mean - no overplaying drummers! Check my website, especially the Zytron pages from the seventies. Mahavishnu meets Big Sur...
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Try using some different drum tracks. Perhaps something not even in the genre. The tracks are set up by genre....so if you're working in the jazz genre.... try some country brushes or some rock tracks and see if they give you what you are looking. Don't get boxed in to thinking you have to use jazz drums on jazz tunes.
It might work and then again, it might be a dismal failure, but it only takes a few seconds to generate the tracks to try it.
I use this all the time in the work I do.... but of course, the lines between country and rock are becoming blurred these days anyway.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Try using some different drum tracks. Perhaps something not even in the genre. The tracks are set up by genre....so if you're working in the jazz genre.... try some country brushes or some rock tracks and see if they give you what you are looking. Don't get boxed in to thinking you have to use jazz drums on jazz tunes.
It might work and then again, it might be a dismal failure, but it only takes a few seconds to generate the tracks to try it.
I use this all the time in the work I do.... but of course, the lines between country and rock are becoming blurred these days anyway. To add to Herb's excellent advice don't forget MIDI. With a little work you can make MIDI drums as busy or plain as you want. A good sounding drum source works helps also.
OK, a random thought;
Why does toilet paper need a commercial? Who's not buying it?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 175
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 175 |
I more or less know all that, thanks, This is more of a sardonic observation than a complaint. It just cracked me up that I was responding to BiaB like I do with so many live drummers - cool it, Krupa...
Just proves drummers really DO overplay... :-)
If this were really a problem, I'd export to MIDI and go into Stylus RMX with about 10 gigs of REX loops. I've almost always got a work-around, and the rest of the time I just need to read the manual again...
I actually do the same, use rock tracks in jazz tunes, especially Latin - rock drums against Latin boleros can work quite well
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,569
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Let's see. By "dumb down", you mean you tried the "simpler" option, yes?
Also, when you choose a RealDrum part, you often have options such as Classic or Contemporary, and/or different kits (type of cymbals, conga, full etc.). Experiment. If you chose a RealStyle and think you are locked in, you aren't; just override the Drum part with your own choice.
Another thing: it is possible to edit the .TXT files that control RealDrums and eliminate certain phrases that could simplify the sound. I know there is a tutorial for this; if you are interested, we'll find it.
ps This kind of control is not yet possible with RealTracks.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 141
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One other basic thing you might want to check is the location of part markers in the chord sheet. The drums get busier the bar before a part marker occurs as a lead-in to the next section. Removing them is another way to "dumb-down" the drums.
HTH,
Ed
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Good idea from Ed.
To elaborate, don't forget you can enter a song with few part markers, freeze just the Drums, then add the part markers that will affect other instruments. Pretty nifty workaround.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2005
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There are quite a few styles that are not "busy". The big problem is having too many styles to try out. Some of the older jazz styles are very calm. Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 824
Expert
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Expert
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No, I do not feel the RealTracks are "a bit TOO real". I would say they are in some instances they are marginally not real enough but the instances are decreasing. When the RealTracks first came out there were a number of us who complained that the jazz Bass was TOO busy. As a result of that, I believe, we got bass styles in '2' Only, '4' Only, Simple and Very Simple. If you do not believe that the base was too busy, just check the original jazz bass styles that are not qualified as above. BTW, my assessment of 'too busy', although I think we said too many embellishments and inappropriate lines, was that the Neil Swainson in BB did not sound anything like he did on recordings. I always assumed that this resulted from the programming applying the wrong lines and embellishments in the wrong places of a progression. Whatever, we have plenty to choose from these days and the new RealTracks and SuperMidis are even better. As far as drummers are concerned, I do sympathise with your viewpoint on LIVE drummers, but I have not really found that the normal swing drum RealTracks are a lot too busy, PROVIDING you take note of the above comments on part markers and you remove the cymbal crash. In fact, I think some drum elements are still missing, in particular the hi-hat foot operated offbeat. Maybe they forgot to mike it, or perhaps my hearing is not so good these days. I cannot believe that it has been eliminated from modern drummers' playing technique. Incidentally, although I still can't hear his hi-hat chatting on the offbeat, give Lewis Nash a gig because you might find him less busy.  All in all, the RealTracks have definitely improved my enjoyment of playing along with Band-in-a-Box. And as I have said many times, BB swings a lot more than some of the real musicians I play with. Swing is a thing that has always been difficult to define and not many people talk about it these days, even on this forum. But it is still the most important element in jazz as far as I am concerned!
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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In light of my comments above, I do not find that the drums are "too busy" because in many cases they are perhaps not busy enough in places. But then again, I don't want busy drum parts in my songs.... give me a solid beat, throw in some tasty fills and I'm happy.
I'm listening to my song Come & Go as I write this because I know it's a typical song for me. The drums are rock steady as they should be and have some decent fills leading into the the various phrases in the music..... verse to chorus, and where you expect them to fill.
This song, while it is solidly country, does in fact have rock drums in it. So it's a prime example of crossing the genre line.
I know that jazz, by it's very nature, has drum lines that are normally busier than other styles. The "pocket" as they call it, is important, but jamming around the pocket is equally as important and having played with some jazz aficionado's a time or two, I can tell you a true jazz drummer is all over the place and tends to be much busier and into places a good rock or country drummer seldom ventures.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2005
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Don't forget that each Real Drum style has a number of variations. Click on the drum icon, then on the style you want and in the right column will be the different variations. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
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the RealTracks have definitely improved my enjoyment of playing along with Band-in-a-Box. And as I have said many times, BB swings a lot more than some of the real musicians I play with. You and me both! When presented in rehearsal with new songs, being the demos made with BIAB, more times than I care to remember I had to tell my playmates to play more like the demo and less like themselves! 
Last edited by LtKojak; 09/03/14 11:03 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2014
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OP
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[quote=The Soundsmith]I'm having fun with BiaB, especially trying out patterns through various style, just to see what turns up. Mostly jazz and smooth jazz styles, but a bit of everything. And listening to several RealTracks playbacks it occurred to me this IS very much like a real band - the drummer is too $%@* busy (just like 80% of the (purportedly) LIVE drummers I've worked with over the years. Worked great with B3 duo; piano bar dinner jazz - not so much...) This is what I started with - a lighthearted, presumably humorous comment on the Real Drummers (and midi drummers that composed the style patterns. No harm intended, and I certainly did not inted to spark a tempest in a time warp. It really WAS meant to be fun, sorry if I stepped on any toes... 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 277
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 277 |
Don't forget that each Real Drum style has a number of variations. Click on the drum icon, then on the style you want and in the right column will be the different variations. Later, Ray I was very happen when i discovered that. It' adds a lot of potential for altering dynamics and such between sections. I believe you can also right click in the chord entry area to change up the style for various sections "change style/ substyle" or some such thing...
Last edited by nobilis; 09/12/14 10:24 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
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