PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows A Tale of Two Computers

Hi,

I am using BiaB 2013 and I am using two Dell laptops, same model, almost new, less than a year old, running Windows 7.

I have my office/studio computer and my gig computer. I have that set up because my office/studio is the main frame of my little world and the gig computer is the satellite. If someone stole my gig computer, I would be way beyond upset, but if someone stole my office/studio computer I could be dead meat.

Almost all of my BiaB songs begin as midi file and start out in my studio computer, edited and tweaked, put on a jump drive and copied over to the gig computer. About 20% of the time, the songs mutate on their way to the gig computer. The volume change, the patches change, and they become unusable. They are totally off base.

What I have is two copies of the same BIAB program, two identical computers, with matching OS. I have tried different jump drives with the same result.

Of course, I am afraid that one night I will have to use my jump drive's back up files and some of the songs will be screwed up.

Any help and suggestions are appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

Carl,

As you describe the issue, it is strange indeed. I don't think there will be one, perfect answer that identifies just what is going on and how you can stop the issue from happening in the future. I think more background information may help to more clearly understand the issue.

When you save your song file do you always save with patches and settings? Do you periodically use the save as function to create a new version of a song file? Does BiaB typically crash while loading a file, playing a file, editing a file or are there all kinds of random crashes? What, if any, crash message(s) do you get? Are you using RealTracks, midi, soft synths, effects? Are you using the solo, melody or audio tracks?

If you are like me, I'm sure your song files go through a lot of changes between the initial song file creation and the finished song file. I've noticed that the more I experiment during song development the higher the probability an issue will crop up. Others may not share that perception so more information will help us understand what you're experiencing.

Hi Carl,



This is very curious. I wonder if Jim has hit the proverbial nail on the head with the above thought. What type of file(s) are you transferring? Is it a midi file, a wav/mp3 file, an SGU file or an MGU file?

Also, the background information Jim asks for will help give us all a clearer picture of your setup and make solving the problem easier.

Regards,
Noel

You say that both computers are identical but are both running the same background programs? Programs like anti-virus and malware can mess up the transfer.

Is one on the Internet while the other isn't?

You say they are the same computers but are you sure? Just because they have the same model number doesn't mean they have the identical components. If you look for your Dell model drivers I would bet that you have a choice of a number of them, at least based on my knowledge. I have worked on a number of Dell computers and it is always a PITA trying to find the right drivers out of the number listed for a given model number. This indicates to me that all Dells with the identical model numbers are not identical.

First of all..... get Carbonite. Its an "in the cloud" backup solution. Cost is about $60 a year IIRC for a personal subscription. Backups are automatic.

I will tell you this..... I have it on my computers as a business plan. Costs more but covers more too. My business computer DIED....and yes.... I too become the proverbial DEAD MEAT..... I can not imagine trying to recover from a catastrophic crash..... but there I was faced with that very situation. All my business and financials gone in a dead computer.

I bought a new computer, logged into my Carbonite account, and did a "data restore" and let the computer run. I selected the important biz files to download first.....then went out and did something else for a while. When I returned, ALL my biz files were back and working perfectly.

So if you fear a crash and loss of data through crash or theft..... get Carbonite. It will save the day.

Second. Unless you are, like me, where my DAW is totally off line..... why not use a network cable/switch to connect and transfer the song data? Faster and easier.

Third. Unless the programs and plugs in both computers are 100% alike..... you will get missing fx and patches that seem to be missing or not saved. I get this kind of a situation ALL THE TIME when I work across the internet with others. Even though we have the same DAW, the plugs and patches are almost never the same.

I have a question for the BIAB users who use BIAB to gig live with. Why? Aside from the fact that BIAB will regenerate a new variation of the song if you choose do so at every play what benefits are there as opposed to using a permanent MP3 or wave file of the song?

I'm not implying that its a wrong approach but it seems that some of the issues experienced by users with unexplained results during plat form cross overs such as in this case could be eliminated by having the whole song rendered as one file through RB or other DAW. All you need after that is a Mp3 or wave player. That way the sound and everything always stays the same, no surprises.

I know there are so many ways to use BIAB and not everyone has the same requirements. The question is for my own benefit. I tend to use BIAB as a creative tool and track generator then finish in the DAW. I can render the song if I desire minus the vocals and my guitar and then play live with the finished MP3 files. Also the finished MP3 sounds way better than just what BIAB can produce. Don't get me wrong, vanilla BIAB rendered tracks sound great but running the tracks through a DAW and adding some polish really makes the finished song shine.

Again no right or wrong way. I'd just like to know why people use BIAB in a live setting.

Jeff, you asked this question with a nice blend of understanding and respect. I use a .WAV player for the few occasions when I bring a BIAB-originated backing track. From what I've read on these forums over decades, I think your speculation is correct: the reason one would use BIAB live is the difference possible with each regeneration. If I were to gig more often with a backing track, I would want to have a challenge handling the differences each playback

My thoughts exactly. And when I do play out and about and use tracks.... it is always a wave file generally burned to a CD rather than being played from a computer. The less chance something can go wrong, the better I like it.

Carl,
If you received your copy of BIAB on a usb hard drive, what happens to the songs if you just move that to the other computer? If you only have the dvd's then I don't have anything new to add to the ideas listed already.
Good luck.

I am amazed and so grateful for all the input and suggestions. Thank you all so much.

It dawned on me today that I might be rushing the saving process. In my previous life, I got into the habit of saving after almost every change and then expecting to save that change in less than 100ms. Not logical, but I think that might be the problem. I am not giving the computer enough time to complete this complex process. All I have to do, I think, is to give it a full four or five seconds of time to git r done.

When I save, 99% of the time I save the patches. When I save I make sure the box asking for automatic multiple version changes is unchecked. I let Real Tracks make the normally live variations without a style change. Once have what I want, I save the tracks frozen.

I think about the cloud storage, but I had three fairly large hard drives hooked up to last year's desk top when it died during a storm. I just don't want to carry any part of that to a gig. Automatic saves to those things works so far.

I think the reason I use BiaB for gigs is that is what I sorta grew up with. I have been a studio owner/guitar player for decades and I just almost always recorded and edited something midi in every session. About three years ago, I sold off almost all my midi hardware rack (I kept my Alesis drummer, Alesis Nanobass module, and my Roland midi bass pedals. Just in case.) and moved into new midi software, Cakewalk X3 and BiaB. I have seen my friends use cassettes, CDs, DVDs, mini disks, computer hard drives, and USBs. I have my computer set lists, but combined with a tip, I might take a request. I find it easy enough to jump in and out of my set lists with BiaB and a laptop. I could be wrong of course, but this seem about the best way for me to do that. What I really love is Jukebox. Load in a Set Folder and I am off to the races. If a friend drops by to sit in, I can turn off the bass or keyboards, and let them play. Almost all drummers HATE midi sequencing , so I won't even go there. I try to use good samples, not sound card sounds, so it sounds like a real band to my ears. So, long story short, I have used midi for almost 30 years. I am used to it.

Just to let everyone know, I am not a brick wall. You can teach this old dog new tricks. I am always looking for the ultimate live rig and I am willing to listen to anything anyone has to say about playing as a single that sounds like a band.

Thanks again everyone.
Peace,
c

Wow Carl,

I'm glad to read you think you may have an idea what's going on. I've noticed on my machine, which is admittantly older than many, the amount of time needed to save a BiaB file can vary.

BiaB seems to do a lot of background tasks during the save function. For instance if you're saving a SGU file that will be used as part of a UserTracks, BiaB may create a "memo.txt" or "options.txt" file during the save process. Then there are other tasks like updating the screen or message log. While some tasks happen with every save, others don't so it's easy for me to understand why the time needed to save changes.

I don't use BiaB for live gigs but many forum members do. A few have mentioned in other postings they prefer to use BiaB live, versus using prepared tracks, for greater variety or to accommodate musicians that ask to set-in. Obviously there are limitations and advantages to both methods. Luckily, both methods work.

Thank you, Jim.

I may find out six months from now that my plan is not working out. And, as you said, there are still plans A-Z to be tried out. It may be possible that a combination of all of the above is the real ticket and that having folks sit in might be just wishful thinking on my part.

I will be in touch.

c