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I was playing around with the different soft synth's on bb, one of which in Dimension Pro by way of Sonar.I don't have any expansion packs other than what came with DM Pro.
I love some of the other sampler/synths like Kontakt and the third party sound libraries but the upfront cost of kontakt is too rich for me.
Does anyone recommend one that is polyphonic and sounds as good as DM Pro or better with instruments similar to what we use in BB, with a good range of guitars both strumming & Picking.
My reason for this is to play in midi,save the files and arrange in BB for better backing tracks also mixed in are real tracks.
I've seen 8dio for kontakt with Dobro and Ample Guitars.
I know this rambles a bit but I want to take my tracks to a higher quality.
Thanks Wyndham
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Wyndham, there are three free expansion packs for DM Pro. You can get them here: http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013208/Free-Dimension-Pro-Expansion-Packs-1-3You may not need anything else right now. I would use a DAW, if you don't have a favorite one use RealBand (RB), it is a very good DAW, I say this because in a DAW you can have multiple VSTis playing at the same time. For instance say on track one you have DM Pro playing bass and on track two you have another DM Pro playing sax. I believe you can have up to 48 different tracks in RB and that is more than enough to use. So technically if your computer can handle it you can have 48 versions of DM Pro playing at the same time. I hope this helps. PS - as you are finding out very good MIDI sound sources cost money! If you are going to get one really good VSTi then definitely get Kontakt.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
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Thanks, I have the 3 free packs, some of the instruments are very good and yes, kontakt would be a nice, maybe someday.
Wyndham
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Wyndham, NI makes other synths besides Kontakt. But before you spend money on more synths or sound packs..... Let me ask you a question. What kind of music are you looking to create? The answer to that question will tell you what direction you need to go. I have the Komplete collection of the NI package....and a bunch of other soft synths from other companies both purchased, discounted, and free. I rarely use them. Since I mostly write country, rock and tv cues, I don't really have a use for them in my style of writing. I use them occasionally for bass, piano and choirs, and sometimes strings. Kontakt is one of the better synths you can buy. It's a bit pricy BUT.... not only does NI make lots and lots of sound packs for it.... it also happens to have hundreds of smaller companies whose sole purpose is making 3rd party sound packs that work with Kontakt. I bought one of those for $30 or so that included acoustic guitar, dulcimer and something else if I recall..... the problem with them.... oh they sound good...certainly, but there are no "human elements" to the sound. Good quality samples played by a midi trigger still sounds stiff and robotic. To add the human factor takes a huge amount of time and effort and the knowledge of how a real player would play... in intimate detail. Most non-players can not grasp that concept. You mentioned in the OP that you wanted to "take my tracks to a higher quality".... I contend that for the most part, unless you are a professional player on a given instrument, PG's BB & RT is the best solution on the market for getting a realistic track on a given instrument. I have found nothing better... yet. Having said that.... most folks don't go much past the rendering of the tracks out of Real Band. They accept the default tracks because....lets face it... they are pretty freaking awesome. However, IMHO.... the secret to getting the most out of BB/RB is to export the tracks into a DAW that is flexible. Yeah, I know RB is a DAW. But to me, it doesn't have the functionality and power of something like Sonar. Secondly, and most importantly, you would probably be wiser to spend your money on a package like Ozone if you want to "up the quality" of your tracks. Ozone is a fairly user friendly mastering suite of tools that can bring out the punch in the drums, shake the earth with the bass, add the sparkle to the highs and does wonders for the entire mix in general. Using the tracks straight out of RB, you will notice that the sound is good, but kind of subdued and perhaps a bit muffled sounding..( I would say "dull", no offense to Peter Gannon and crew) ..... there's not a lot of punch or definition in the music and certainly, the highs are not as present as they could be. Ozone, properly applied will fix that. That one step, will take the quality of the tracks up a few steps. If you have not done so.... listen to my music. I use Ozone in my master buss in Sonar with a custom preset that I tweeked for the sound I want to achieve. I am providing 2 examples below. Listen on some good speakers or good headphones so you can hear the subtle aspects of the music. Here is a song without Ozone: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=6547494Here is a song with Ozone: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12633485Quite the difference. It's also noteworthy to disclose that I used Melodyne for vocal fixes on the song with Ozone. Another disclosure.... Corridors was recorded without BB/RB I hadn't bought PG at that time.....so, if you think that skews the example, simply listen to the vocals. Between Melodyne and Ozone.... I would say those 2 software purchases were among the best decisions I ever made that have moved my music up on the quality scale..... aside from PG, of course. Now days, 95% of my music, and all the tracks you hear in my songs are either real band tracks or me playing the guitar/piano live in my studio. I haven't loaded a softsynth except to do some custom stuff with bass tracks or when I play the piano. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 10/05/14 08:04 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Well the better thing is to listen to our latest backing track "Twisting" which was made mainly of rt's, and tell me whether you think the sound quality and clarity is good for a backing track or could use better synths, etc. http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=12934617&q=hisince I have subjective hearing I don't always know if what I like is what others hear Thanks Wyndham
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I think it sounds reasonable. I don't think you will get better performances from synths.
If you took that master project to a DAW, added the proper EQ and used Ozone in the master buss (at the very least) I think this would sound considerably better.
I could run Ozone on the mix "as is" and improve it but the best improvement is made when you have the tracks and can work on them individually to add multiband compression and EQ to say... the drums.... it really allows the snare to pop and the kick to kick.... and the cymbals to sizzle. Using a low cut band pass (EQ) on the bass helps to tighten it up.
It becomes a total process in itself. I probably spend more time on my songs in this stage of the process than any other including the recording.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I've got Sonar x3 so that will be a good platform to work on individual tracks.
Here's my question,if this song(after your suggestions) were developed on a synth like Kontakt or Garitan,(excluding the technical process to make the song) would the result be about the same, better or 10x better.
This is what I meant by taking the quality to a higher level.
Thanks Wyndham
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Wyndham I just listened to "Twisting" on my studio monitors, and I could almost hear a synth or keyboard pad type of patch after bar four or so. So I put on the headphones and listened to it again, and I'm still almost sure I can hear it, but not sure I'm just imagining it....(A lot of times my brain will put something in there that nobody else hears.)
If there is one there, then I'd suggest a better mix to bring it out. Ozone is great if you have the money up front (I too own a copy). But there are a lot of things you can try before you buy. Boosting and cutting certain frequencies, panning different instruments, listening to your mix in mono then stereo, listening to it in your car, etc. It's very subjective, but I like it when a mix 'breathes'.
Guitarhacker's two examples illustrate this point very well to my ears. I don't think a better synth patch would be an improvement for you. And frankly most guitar patches are pretty sad (just my opinion) even the ones in my guitar synth! If you are thinking you can program a midi guitar that will sound as good as a Real Track either strumming or picking notes, I don't believe it's come along yet.
Last edited by Dan45; 10/05/14 07:09 PM.
BiaB 2024
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Melodyne Essential 5.3
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There are 2 ways to improve this mix in my humble opinion.....
1... use Ozone to tweek the EQ and compression
2... get some really good players and record the guitars live.
there are not any really good midi sounding guitars IMHO... yeah, they have really nice samples BUT... you loose when you try to make them sound like someone's actually playing them unless you really know how to massage them.
Try the demo of Ozone. IIRC it works fully featured for 10 days and then reverts to demo mode.... Be prepared to buy if you try it. It's gonna be that good.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I'm going to try the Ozone demo and thanks both of you for taking the time to listen. Ozone 5 is about $200 at Sweetwater, you're not referring to the more expensive $800 version, I hope  Most of what I'm doing is making some demo backing tracks for a friend to pitch for a Gospel event in Branson later this month. This way he can play guitar and sing to the track. This also allows me to learn more about putting out better tracks. Wyndham
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I have the less expensive one.
I highly recommend reading up on mixing if you have time. I started with a "Home Recording for Dummies" type book.
Best of Luck!
BiaB 2024
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Ozone has some really good pdf's on their website on mastering and what happens when you make adjustments to the modules.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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