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I've started to arrange and compose songs using BIAB as my main tool for such. Despite its many great features, I for one am not overly fond of the resulting printed charts. Although I have used them and given them to my band members, the charts just don't cut it (IMHO). That said, I'm looking for all possible ways to take what I've created in BIAB and get a great looking printed chart. Sibelius seems to be the software of choice when I asked other members of my band, but they don't use BIAB.
I've tried Musescore and find it a bit tough to work with. With these thoughts in mind, how do you get your BIAB work printed neatly for performance?
Thank you for taking the time to read and reply.
Bob
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Bob, I've tried many notation programs over the years. I still use Encore, which I learned about 1993. I cannot recommend it now because of questions about their support, but I've been a beta tester for decades and it works for me. I even did symphony orchestra parts with it last year. Sibelius is a fine choice for serious work and far more powerful but it is quite difficult to master. The company also got rid of programmers so its future is in question. Finale seems to be a stable company. The product also is difficult to master but extremely powerful and much used. If I'm not mistaken, a starter version is offered on the PG Music website. *MuseScore is free and promising but buggy. I know some here use Noteworthy Composer. I haven't tried that, nor a new one, Forte. I've been meaning to look at Notion, which looks promising. Many of these you can try by downloading demos that often do everything but Save a file. The trick is to find one where the user interface makes sense to you. In this way, it is similar to choosing a DAW. I still hope all these programs (including BIAB) adopt a full implementation of Music XML for seamless file transfer. That's the future. * EDIT: check these links on the PG Music site for Finale and Finale PrintMusic:http://www.pgmusic.com/finale.win.htmhttp://www.pgmusic.com/finaleprintmusic.win.htm[/color]
Last edited by Matt Finley; 10/27/14 04:00 PM.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Matt: Wow, "I still use Encore", I remember and used Encore for a long time (way way back), I dropped it because of a lack of support.
Unfortunately I can't remember much of Noteworthy Composer except I used it for about 1 year (long ago). If memory serves me, it worked well and easy as pie to use but I always thought of it as a beginner's intro into the music notation sw.
And so I went for the big ones, I have/had Finale and Sibelius but I didn't like either one; difficult and frustrating to use. I just wanted something simple to use.
You're right about checking out the demos. I bought some because of their "name".
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Not in same league as you folks, but about 25 years ago I purchased Personal Composer. Spent hundreds and hundreds of hours scoring. Bought it for about $400 before first 1.0 came out. It is still around and has a free trial. http://www.pcomposer.com/downloads.htmlTake note, depending on your scoring needs varying prices. Good luck!
Last edited by seeker; 10/27/14 05:37 PM.
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I have generally used Noteworthy Composer (and still do a lot), but I'm also finding I'm really liking Notion. PreSonus recently purchased Notion, and have incorporated some of their plugins into the new version of Notion 5.0. Once you get used to how you enter notes, it's pretty elegant in its design. It also costs a lot less than Finale or Sibelius (of course, Finale just released PrintMusic 2014, which may fill all your needs at a lower price point than the main Finale program).
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Thank you for your great suggestions. At present, I'm a little put-off by both Sibelius and Finale, from both a pricing and learning curve perspective. On the other hand, Finale's PrintMusic 2014 and Notion both are in the price range I can afford. I plan to download the trial software and will check it out.
I might as well ask now: How do you guys get your BIAB work into Finale, Sibelius, Notion, whatever? If anyone has the time, I'd really like to hear about your work flow to the final printed score.
Again, I greatly appreciate your replies. Thank you.
Bob
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You can just export MIDI. Unfortunately the chord info does not transfer and you have to re-enter those.
MuseScore will read BIAB files directly, including chord info.
If BIAB could export Music XML, you could import that into most software. We are close; this already works for the voice synth.
My experiments exporting MuseScore as Music XML have not worked well enough.
Last edited by Matt Finley; 10/28/14 06:43 AM.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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There is a new version 2 beta of MuseScore available. I wonder if they have improved MusicXML export. If it does work, then even if you don't use it for notation, it's an option to get it into XML, which can then be read by one of the other notation programs.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Ah, yes, worth trying. Thanks John.
I don't know where the current problem is: reading a BIAB file into MuseScore, or exporting it as XML. It works, but not accurately.
Wherever the problem is, it is not a fault of BIAB, as MuseScore reads the BIAB source file and BIAB never claimed that this would work. It would be nice, though, if the two companies got together. If this new version of MuseScore works, then PG Music would not have to devote any effort to supporting Music XML export.
EDIT: the writeup says the changes include this:
MusicXML import/export improvements - greater compatibility with other applications, ability to control degree of layout preserved
But alas, some strange things happened. The chords imported but in the wrong measure, and all the melody notes play but the notation is wrong - everything is the one pitch. ?
Last edited by Matt Finley; 10/28/14 09:37 AM.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Johnny One-Note? 
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Funny! Why don't you try it also, John?
We may have to wait though; it is a beta after all. I noticed that the File, Open menu said that BIAB file types were "experimental". I don't remember that being in version 1, and indeed I got better results in version 1 than this new beta. However, the list of new features says there are now more options for Music XML and maybe I haven't yet found the right choice.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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In going to try it; just couldn't at the time I posted.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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So I tried it. I opened an MGU file with MuseScore 2.0 Beta 1 and it created the staff, but as Matt experienced, it was all the same note. However, when I played it, I heard the melody play. It also picked up the chord progression above the staff.
I exported to MusicXML and then imported that into Notion 4.0 (I haven't upgraded to 5.0 yet). Notion displayed the chord progression (with some formatting errors) above the staff, but no notes came through from the melody line.
Hopefully later MuseScore betas will provide better support, but it was nice to see the chord progression come over from BIAB into a notation program. Now just need the notes.
As was said, it would be cool if PGMusic could somehow get together with the MuseScore folks to better handle SGU and MGU files, but there might be conflict since BIAB/RB are for profit programs, whereas MuseScore is open source.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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We do get the right melody notes from a BIAB file in MuseScore v2.0 Beta1.
Here is how to proceed :
- Load your *.mgu file into Musescore
- Go to Style Menu/General/Score/tick Display in Concert Pitch/OK.
It's done.
Last edited by John-Luke; 10/29/14 12:17 AM.
Reach for excellence
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Thanks, John-Luke. I'll give it a try.
I don't use MuseScore as my main notation program, so there is still lots for to learn as far as options are concerned. But it looks like there is hope for using it either directly, or as an intermediary, to notate BIAB scores, both with notes and chords.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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One simpler way to do : Just click on 'Concert Pitch', at the extreme right of the second line of the menu, just near the metronome icon.
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I'm a MuseScore fan and have used it a number of times. Once you get the hang of how it works, its workflow is smooth.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Thanks for this tip, John-Luke. I'll try it at home later.
Assuming it works, I wonder why this extra step is required in version 2 beta when it was not in version 1? Oh, well.
Is anyone here actively doing beta testing for MuseScore?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I installed a trial version of Finale PrintMusic 2014 last night. I didn't have the time to 'play' with it, but I did manage to get a midi file created from BIAB loaded and displayed in PrintMusic 2014. The particular file was "Unit 7". I was a bit disappointed in not seeing chords displayed and in the 'swing' eighth notes displayed incorrectly. (From memory, PrintMusic produced dotted eighth-16th notes from two eighth notes, I recall.) Also, the melody (tenor sax) ended up on the bass clef for reasons I don't understand.
I'll give it a more thorough evaluation and trial over the weekend.
Bob
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Thanks for this tip, John-Luke. I'll try it at home later.
Assuming it works, I wonder why this extra step is required in version 2 beta when it was not in version 1? Oh, well.
Is anyone here actively doing beta testing for MuseScore?
I'm another supporter of MuseScore. I discovered the program earlier this year and used it on a few scores already. I'm not a beta tester, however I have made several suggestions on their support forum and they are definitely responsive. I actually discovered the program when I kept beating my head against the wall with BIAB's ahem... limited scoring abilities. Since I don't use melodies, just straight chords, being able to import them into MuseScore is extremely helpful. Like all scoring apps, Musescore has its own learning curve, but it's not that bad overall.
BIABguy
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