Thank you, I have been there, I remember now after visiting this thread through your link. There are some very good expressed requests included in pictures and words.
So far everybody in this thread is talking about an idea with hints to other software. But most everything I have read here is wishful thinking in the sense of "if it was better". Please don't think that I see the GUIs of BIAB and RealBand as the absolute optimum. I already have said that I wish that those two and all other PGMusic programs should have the same look and feel. I don't think that the Adobe suite has the best of all GUIs available, but the GUIs are very similar; they have the same look and feel despite their totally different functionalities. What I read is: "It should be better." That is o.k. but not quantizeable.
So I read this interesting thread with one thought in mind: "Where's the beef?"
What would you think a great GUI for BIAB should look like? Could you provide a sample GUI?
Maybe others of the great minds in this forum then have constructive ideas to hint PGMusic to develop the greater than Great GUI.Guido
GHInch did you see my post on "reimagining the song panel" I went into quite a few specifics, regarding how to enhance it with hover over technology whilst keeping essentially the same.
There is quite a bit that could be done to make this screen educational. Via the use of hover over, hover off/disappear corners (think like folding over tiny corners of a page), one could show educational information about a chord or sequence of chords. For example offering chord substitutes, or providing information about chord voicings, what notes are in the 'mode scale' and what are not.
Other programmes (sequencers and biab is a sequencer in many senses) have incorporated melodyne-esque tech which allows the analysis of melodic audio files into MIDI - with editing options. I hope here, but often feel 'never' which is sad.
Thinking about songs, we don't have any live vocals in BIAB yet, Obviously there would be issues. Probably it would be better to work in four bars rather than single bars, maybe a whole song. I am thinking about Jazz standards perhaps. Just brainstorming. Would be great for learning how to accompany. I can see no reason why in certain circumstances, that is with particular (possibly solo, possibly vocal) files, that BIAB could not insist that the "Lego Brick" inserted is kept within a range of keys or number of bars. This way it would be possible to have real soloists and real vocals.
East West have a business model where the Player is free and universal, and the packages are paid for individually, its a common practice.
I want to say again that there are many things to admire in BIAB too.
More on the GUI: I like as little visual clutter as possible, plus context sensitive relevance. Ideally I should like to have dockable windows *(dual screen capable), for things like the MID and the MIxer and even the Notation.
I notice with the present GUI (2015) we have names of instruments, but my electric piano sound (HEPNO85.STY says piano not electric piano. At present the sax is called a guitar again (after I changed it to a guitar and then back).
It would be good to have tooltip/hover over info about the (correct) instrument names including in some cases the pitch and maybe even type of guitar/cab etc..
The 'sequencer' window thing I find very odd.
If you look through the drop down menus a lot of it is very antiquated. I am not saying the options should not be available, but Do we all need to have "Reset Roland GS" as the first item on the GM menu? Should there be an option called "Run Windows Control Panel?" As part of a general sort out, perhaps a lot of this info can be confined to a MIDI pop out type menu similar to the piano roll, but so as we could see both MIDI and Notation or chords as we choose.
There is much to like about the new mixer, its simplicity but when you are not using it, its simply taking vcisual space whereas it would be better to use this space for the current purpose - therefore it should be a pop up.
I notice that the only time the Mixer 'piano' window (which can actually be any instrument - better 'piano roll') that you can see the notes being played is when the song is in motion. It would be much more informative if you could see the voicing of the given chords when the song is stationary, so - you could hover over a particular chord and immediately see how its being voiced.
Right click customisable menus (with a 'show all' option) would be good too for saving real estate. Show hide for menu bars, on right click.
Some of the once MIDI only option suych as 'play chord' should only be offered on a MIDI track or be able to play a wav. Otherwise its confusing when you hear nothing.
The idea of having esoteric meanings like green for real track and underline for something else, is OK -ish, but better to make it clear to the ininitiated.
Piano role window could be enhanced in many ways - see the major sequencers.
Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2025, Cubase 14, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use
yes I asked for specifics. I didn't ask for me. I asked for the poor developers at PGMusic. I always try to walk in the other's mocassins. In this case in the mocassins of the developer and in the mocassins of those who want a better GUI. I do understand both parties, I have been in the consultant business a long time.
The main reason that triggered me to ask was a rather boring thread to read: "I want a better GUI." "Yes, the GUI could really be improved." "PGMusic needs to hire better personnel." "I agree, they have a good program, but it doesn't appeal to those who rate a book by the cover." ...
There is a lot of beef in that burger now. Have a super day. Guido
Simply put, the program is a mess. It's incredibly good at what it does and can do, unfortunately doing anything is usually a chore. It is the most non-intuitive, uninspiring difficult piece of software I have ever come across.
I'm not here to slag it off, I genuinly would love to see the clutter sorted out. I would love to do more with it but frankly can rarely be bothered. Any time I want to try out something new or experiment with something which I think is 'probably' possible, by the time I've trawled through countless videos and help files I'm generally none the wiser and my enthusiasm / inspiration has gone and been forgotten. This is the only software I have ever used where I even have to resort to help files, the bulk of most other brands of software can usually be figured out quickly and easily with a little bit of playing around.
This IMO is this real problem with the software and I guess what most others are talking about with the GUI.
I don't care that it looks like an old 3.1 interface, I don't care that it's not shiney and animated, I just care about the unnecessary mess. This is nothing that needs a major rewrite, just a company that listens to it's customers and asks them for specifics that need addressing. Most of it could be implemented in a simple update.
There are menus all over the place, everything is vague and utterly non-descript. I need quicker, easier access to regularly used functions with a basic right click or toolbar button, not nested so deep in dialogue boxes and sub menus that I never remember how to get back to them.
There are way too many places to get to a function. The same menus pop up time and again in different parts of the program. It's all unnecessary. get rid of the clutter and start again. 2015 has actually gone backwards in this regard. For example, I click the soloist button only to be given a choice that I can get from many other areas. It's pointless. The whole point of a toolbar button is to take you immediately to another function, not further nesting. Everything I do, everything I click, I wonder what the hell is going on.
If PG want to listen then I'd give specifics, as I'm sure would most everyone else. Not asking for new functionality or features, just clean up the mess that has been accumalating since the first version. There are a lot of functions that could and should be improved / implemented much better but begin with a clean up.
BIAB for me does exactly what it's supposed to do. It provides me with quality accompaniment when I play solo piano gigs. I've been using BIAB since the floppy disc days. The accompaniment has just gotten better and better. PG Music can change whatever they want about the GUI as long as the functions don't change. My 2 cents worth. Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
BIAB has always been my favourite piece of music software. I've learnt A LOT as a musician during these last years with it, I've always recommended it to my fellow musicians, and I've always said that buying BIAB is one of the the best investments any musician can do in his musical life.
I've always been (and still am) a fan.
Having said that, I think that the "50 new features each year" growth model (adding more and more features without caring too much for internal consistence with old ones) has put BIAB in a complicated situation: the program is more and more complex each year (specially for beginners), really buggy (some of the bugs have been there for years), and the GUI has gone, IMO, just out of control.
So, as a customer, I have a kind of love-hate relationship with the software: I love how it works when I use the very basic functions (writing some chords, choosing a style and pressing play, for example), but I often get frustrated / demotivated when I'm trying to use more advanced functions, just to discover that they just don't work as they should (or don't work at all), or when I feel creative / musically inspired and can't do what I have in mind, simply because the feature I need is hidden in a labyrinth of buttons, menus and cryptic terminology.
IMHO, we really don't need 50 new features for 2016, but a serious revision of what we already have, and a complete redesign of the GUI from a fresh perspective.
In any case, I also really want PG Music to succeed
I would go further and say that the main reason for the "50 new features every year" is that PG has placed far too much importance on responding to users pet peeves and personal prejudices. It is a case of "too much democracy". It's all very well to listen to user's suggestions but it is just as important to use professional technical and commercial judgment. It is ironic that the users who keep on asking for more and more trivial tweeks could be the same users who complain that the GUI is too complicated.
Come on PG, there won't be a revolution if you tried ignoring most of the wishlist for a while
I would go further and say that the main reason for the "50 new features every year" is that PG has placed far too much importance on responding to users pet peeves and personal prejudices. It is a case of "too much democracy". It's all very well to listen to user's suggestions but it is just as important to use professional technical and commercial judgment. It is ironic that the users who keep on asking for more and more trivial tweeks could be the same users who complain that the GUI is too complicated.
Come on PG, there won't be a revolution if you tried ignoring most of the wishlist for a while
Tony
Sorry Tony, but I wouldn't characterise things in this way 'pet peeves' - one man's pet peeve is another's most important improvement.
"Come on PG, /....ignore most of the wish list "
Including your post? Or just everyone else?
I do see the need for a top class gui designer to be brought in to evaluate where we are and where we are going though...
I think those of us who are happy with BIAB the way it is should chime in. Whether PG changes the GUI or not, I just want to be able to do what I do now as easily as I do now. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
Why do you believe the young are not using BiaB? I don't think census statistics of active forum participants would not accurately reflect the statistics of all BiaB users. For example, many educators use BiaB as a learning tool thus exposing students of all ages to BiaB.
The reasons I think the young are not using BiaB are: BiaB is not viable on their preferred platforms, smartphone & tablet. BiaB does not have enough content in current genres. Most of all, initial start up cost.
Last edited by JimFogle; 12/11/1412:22 PM. Reason: added left out word
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