PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Newbie Questions and intro

Hi,

I am very new to recording and using electronic equipment though I have been working in the computer service business for many years. That being said I purchased Band In A Box a few months ago before I had my audio interface (from guitar to USB) so I jammed with it a bit, programmed a few chord changes, and put it down for a while.

My main objective is to be able to compose, record and play tunes I write, mainly. At this current time here is a list of equipment and programs I have accumulated in the last few months:

Laney IRT-STUDIO amp with GS212PE speakers
Fender Stratocaster American Standard
BOSS BR-800 Digital Recorder
M-Audio BX5 Monitor Speakers
BOSS ME-80 guitar effects, and some amps as well.
Fender Mustang Mini - While waiting for my IRT-STUDIO Amp
Line 6 POD Studio UX2 - audio interface for guitar/vocals to USB port on computer

Band In A Box Pro
Reason Limited
Line 6 POD Farm 2
Line 6 Gearbox
Cakewalk SONAR LE
Cubase LE (trial version)
Reaper (trial version)

At this point I don't have much of a head about me to use MIDI and all the recording concepts. I have read a few boards and there are many guys that have 3-4 of the DAW programs and are not even using all of the power, don't read the manuals and just end up using one for certain functions and so forth. I have also seen others who are complete freaks that use everything, I don't feel I want to get that deeply into it. I just want to be able to lay basic tracks, grab some drums, bass and piano / guitar or what have you from BIAB and record along on some tracks, etc...

I have recorded a few basic tracks with the software above, not yet with BIAB, just jammed along. I notice the Audio record button suggests a windows interface not sure if this include USB audio interfaces or how so I guess that is a good place to begin. I would also like to be able to take drums from BIAB, in a structure, and either export and import into Cubase, Reaper or Reason (or another DAW I decide on) into a track and use it that way.

Please offer any suggestions and I apologize for being long winded.

Thanks.

Surprised no one has answered you in any way. But here's my take.

The best book for beginners is a book called home recording for beginners. It uses Reaper as its daw of choice which you say you have. It starts you off recording happy birthday in audio.

Start recording projects in basic terms. Do some 12 bar blue things. Work with the programs and learn them one step at a time.

Go through the turorials in the help files. One at a time. Don't skip anything. Go from one to the next. When you get into a jam ask on the forum for that product. 6 months to a year from now you WILL be makng decent recordings with your stuff.

Just keep at it and have fun

With that much equipment I'd suggest learning to use RealBand (included free with BiaB) instead of focusing on BiaB.

BiaB is simpler to lay out songs with (and faster sometimes), but RB offers more options for routing tracks and using multiple input signals, and output ports, etc.

Plus it offers most of the track generation features BiaB offers, and works more like the other DAW software you have. It's much like BiaB but different in a way that if you understand how other DAWs work it can be more comfortable to learn. Just my 2 cents

The reason I say this is becaus of your statement "and record along on some tracks" (plural).
BiaB has one audio track .. RB has 48 available, so you can record multiple tracks much easier .. and cut paste from one to the other .. etc.

I have to smile when I read this. This is what most have said in the very beginning of their voyage into the depths of digital audio. It goes something like this:

"I don't want to become a freakin computer nerd, all I want to do is make some music and record it for my friends!!"

That was me about 10 years ago. This stuff is deep, challenging and very frustrating for noob's because of the language. You're in the computer service business. You know what a power supply is, what a sata connector is, what the CPU is, an SSD, the heatsink, what this is, what that is. You mention that stuff to most of your customers and their eyes glaze over, correct?

Well, do you speak the language of an audio recording engineer, do you know what a soft synth is vs a hardware synth, what midi is in relation to audio, the difference between MME and ASIO, why you can't use 64 bit plugs with a 32 bit app, do you know what a plug is and what latency is, all that kind of thing? If not just take your time have patience, read a lot and ask questions here and we can help you get through it.

Yeah, I know you don't need to become a recording engineer, you just want to record some basic tracks, why is this so complicated? Why am I not getting any sound, what is with this stupid half second delay, why when I hit record I don't see the meter move, why does the audio have these little glitchy noises in it? And the biggie, whatinhell is this access violation? Yep, been there, done that and yes you will become a recording engineer, and a midi/audio expert and become another version of a computer nerd because without a good grasp of that language this will all be mud to you.

The good news is it's great fun and the people in this forum are great to work with.

Bob

Sounds like you have some good gear there to start with.

Once I discovered and started to use Band in a Box (BB) I pretty much stopped using midi to the extent I had done so previously.

I still use it on occasion but it's pretty rare actually now for me to have midi tracks in a project.

Reason being...... BB & Real Band. (RB)

I use BB to write the songs.... then I save them and reopen them in RB. RB renders the tracks with audio and I can ask it to render other instruments as well that may not be in the BB style..... such as adding steel guitar, dobro, mandolin, fiddle to a hard rock basic style. RB lets me do that.

I then save the RB project as a SEQ file and I export the tracks, one by one to a folder where I keep them.

I open Sonar and import the tracks and do the mixing, editing, EQ, and other things towards the goal of the final mix. I also record my live parts... generally guitar parts and all vocals in Sonar at this time.

Have a listen to the music I write and record in this manner on my website.

The way I do this is but one way you can use BB/RB in conjunction with the other programs. After trying a few different ways, you will settle into a method that works best for you. I settled into using mainly audio tracks and have never regretted leaving midi behind. Of course, I do still use midi, but only when I can not get the results I need for a specific part. I haven't used some of the synths I have for several years now..... Of course, country doesn't use many synths either.

Always ask questions if you get stuck or just need to understand something better.

Very impressive list.

I started back in 2002 with Sonar 2.2 and learned (sometimes the hard way) MIDI.

I have very recently gotten into BIAB (BB) through the encouragement of my brother who used BB (from way back, not sure now long) to help him write songs in BB and that's what I am now starting to do. But the learning curve is pretty steep.

I like to write in BB and then bring the song/melody into RB to massage it. I then, export the single tracks (of the instruments) into Sonar via the "dropbox " method.

As was stated above, use the many very good videos either produces by PGMusic or the others produces by very talented BB users for educate yourself on the many nuances of the very fine program.

You have chosen a good place to start with BIAB and RT. Bear in mind that these products are unique. Most recordings are not done in these programs they are done in dedicated sequencers - Pro Tools , Cubase etc. However, you will get more satisfying and quicker results in BIAB and RT. Its a LOT easier. RT is a basic sequencer with special sympathy's for BIAB which is the worlds best accompaniment software.

I would say as first base, there are three things to learn

1] How to record Audio (fairly straightforward - mike positions, levels)

2] Understand MIDI and VSTS (virtual Instruments) (See WIKI)

3] Understand sampling/samplers and loops

You can get lots of freebies - thousands of applications - effects, instruments (VSTS) sequencers, even whole orchestras. A good source is KVR.

The main thing is to not get overwhelmed, don't digress too much from making music

Welcome

Z

Lots of great advice you've gotten so far. I am new also. Been at this for about 1-2 years, but still lots to learn.

I found the best way for me to learn the program was to take a song I know well and try to recreate it in BB. I determine the song format/structure/outline (don't know the correct term for this), put in all the chords and start searching for the best match of Real tracks style to get me close. Once I determine the format for the song, I open it in RB and start adding, changing and removing tracks/instruments to get as close as it can. Then I will export to a DAW and add my guitar or vocal there. I mix in the DAW.

Once I know how recreate a song with all it's parts, I can then more easily get BB to help me create what's in my head.

Just my way of learning. I am sure you will get more examples and you have plenty of great gear to get you going.

Good luck and be careful. It's addictive and all consuming. Once you get something started and begin to see your creation come to life, it's hard to set it aside to sleep, eat, work, etc......

Kratz0, you have been given a lot of good advice so I will give you only one new piece of advice. If you don't already have a favorite DAW that you are using, I see that you have three-entry level ones listed, then use RealBand. RealBand (RB) can do more that the ones you have now. Many of us only use Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) and RealBand and the end results are identical to any other DAW on the market.

Some of use do use other DAWs and in fact I use Sonar X3e. Many of us have work flows like this, BiaB to RB to our DAWs. I have said this many times if you don't have a DAW that you are already using then there is no need to buy one as RB will do all you need it to do to produce pro sounding songs.

Good luck.

[quote=rharv]With that much equipment I'd suggest learning to use RealBand (included free with BiaB) instead of focusing on BiaB.

BiaB is simpler to lay out songs with (and faster sometimes), but RB offers more options for routing tracks and using multiple input signals, and output ports, etc.

Plus it offers most of the track generation features BiaB offers, and works more like the other DAW software you have. It's much like BiaB but different in a way that if you understand how other DAWs work it can be more comfortable to learn. Just my 2 cents

The reason I say this is becaus of your statement "and record along on some tracks" (plural).
BiaB has one audio track .. RB has 48 available, so you can record multiple tracks much easier .. and cut paste from one to the other .. etc.[/quote]

excellent, concise advice, doing just that now, thanks!

[quote=jazzmammal][quote=rkatz0]I don't feel I want to get that deeply into it. I just want to be able to lay basic tracks, grab some drums, bass and piano / guitar or what have you from BIAB and record along on some tracks, etc...[/quote]

I have to smile when I read this. This is what most have said in the very beginning of their voyage into the depths of digital audio. It goes something like this:

"I don't want to become a freakin computer nerd, all I want to do is make some music and record it for my friends!!"

That was me about 10 years ago. This stuff is deep, challenging and very frustrating for noob's because of the language. You're in the computer service business. You know what a power supply is, what a sata connector is, what the CPU is, an SSD, the heatsink, what this is, what that is. You mention that stuff to most of your customers and their eyes glaze over, correct?

Well, do you speak the language of an audio recording engineer, do you know what a soft synth is vs a hardware synth, what midi is in relation to audio, the difference between MME and ASIO, why you can't use 64 bit plugs with a 32 bit app, do you know what a plug is and what latency is, all that kind of thing? If not just take your time have patience, read a lot and ask questions here and we can help you get through it.

Yeah, I know you don't need to become a recording engineer, you just want to record some basic tracks, why is this so complicated? Why am I not getting any sound, what is with this stupid half second delay, why when I hit record I don't see the meter move, why does the audio have these little glitchy noises in it? And the biggie, whatinhell is this access violation? Yep, been there, done that and yes you will become a recording engineer, and a midi/audio expert and become another version of a computer nerd because without a good grasp of that language this will all be mud to you.

The good news is it's great fun and the people in this forum are great to work with.

Bob[/quote]

Yes (and thanks for the great reply), I am actually quite technical and know what all those terms mean and am also intimate with computer technology, to the extent that what has transpired in the music world since I left it (around 24 years ago) just blows me away! My statement (question) is one of operation and integration, just trying to cut a shorter path to functionality as you may well appreciate! ;)

[quote=Guitarhacker]Sounds like you have some good gear there to start with.

Once I discovered and started to use Band in a Box (BB) I pretty much stopped using midi to the extent I had done so previously.

I still use it on occasion but it's pretty rare actually now for me to have midi tracks in a project.

Reason being...... BB & Real Band. (RB)

I use BB to write the songs.... then I save them and reopen them in RB. RB renders the tracks with audio and I can ask it to render other instruments as well that may not be in the BB style..... such as adding steel guitar, dobro, mandolin, fiddle to a hard rock basic style. RB lets me do that.

I then save the RB project as a SEQ file and I export the tracks, one by one to a folder where I keep them.

I open Sonar and import the tracks and do the mixing, editing, EQ, and other things towards the goal of the final mix. I also record my live parts... generally guitar parts and all vocals in Sonar at this time.

Have a listen to the music I write and record in this manner on my website.

The way I do this is but one way you can use BB/RB in conjunction with the other programs. After trying a few different ways, you will settle into a method that works best for you. I settled into using mainly audio tracks and have never regretted leaving midi behind. Of course, I do still use midi, but only when I can not get the results I need for a specific part. I haven't used some of the synths I have for several years now..... Of course, country doesn't use many synths either.

Always ask questions if you get stuck or just need to understand something better. [/quote]

This is the sort of nuts and bolts reply that really helps, thanks, I have seen many great replies on the board but this one is golden (IMHO), however, I disagree with you about your way is "one way", I would say your way is ONE of the ONLY ways to do this! :)

Also judging by the quality of your recordings it might be THE way to do it, thanks!

Thanks for your reply, here is mine:

1. Yes, however, with my Laney IRT-STUDIO amp I plug it directory into my computer from the USB interface or if I am using the Focusrite 6i6 can plug into one of the inputs there so no need to learn about miking until I need to use that garbage can with glass in it!

2. Yes, yes, yes and wow, completely astounded at what is out there and what can be done (complete orchestra for under $200, excellent pianos and virtually (literally) all synths ever made!).

3. Please clarify, if you will, what you think understanding of samplers and loops is. The reason I ask is I have found there to be certain "beliefs" in my mind about this subject that isn't in reality how they are used and I'm still working that one out, thank you in advance.

Well I purchased a Reaper license for a few reasons:

1. The Reaper Forum has many excellent and helpful folk on it.
2. Reaper is not expensive and is reportedly very stable.
3. Reaper is used by my high school composition teacher who says he knows some of the developers, has been using it for many years.
4. Reaper can do everything all the other DAWs out there do, except the stuff I don't know about, engineer stuff, perhaps.
5. Reaper also twisted my arm with the Personal Edition pricing which is exactly the same functionality as the commercial license.

That being said I will definitely learn to navigate RealBand and might end up using it in most cases. Best regards!

Reaper is as good of a DAW as any out there, excellent value and has a very strong forum. Looking forward to hearing your first music production.

yeah you made a great choice with Reaper! I have tried on several occasions to use Realband and it is so quirky and archaic in the way things are done I get very frustrated very fast. Reaper is state-of-the-art in both its functionality and its design so you will not only be able to accomplish everything you wish but you will enjoy using the software!

my work flow on songs where I use BIAB is now like this,

1) BIAB to get the basic song written
I often use Realtracks only (but lately I have had great success in using MIDI and then bringing those MIDI tracks into Reaper for use with Kontakt 5)

2) set all tracks to center pan, remove all reverb, set all to same volume and export them as separate mono normalized WAV files

3) bring all tracks into Reaper and mix, edit, apply VSTs, etc.

4) master in Reaper

If I do not get the tracks I want sometimes I will save the song with another name (SONG-2) and change the Realtracks before I do steps 2-4 above.

In rare cases where I cannot seem to get what I want I will open my song in Realband and try to get something better there. But the only reason I would resort to this is for the bar-by-bar Realtrack regeneration feature that Realband has; if they added this feature to BIAB I would never use Realband!

I need some help from somebody who is an expert at using band in a box. I am a beginner

You came to the right forum. Now start a new thread and fire away.

DITTO what Jazzmandan said: START A NEW THREAD

But to help us help you maybe in the new thread:

list your PC (OS, how much memory, HDD size, processor type/speed), what is your sound card (e.g., built-in Realtek audio chip, Sound Blaster Titanium PCIe, external M-Audio USB device,etc.)

Do you have a MIDI interface (even a simple USB to MIDI cable)?

Finally maybe in a few words (don't really need life history) your MUSIC experience and PC experience.

Not being snide just it's easier to help someone if we know terminology/vocabulary level we can use.


Do you have enough music background to know basic music terms (scales, keys, tempo, chords, clef, Dim7, ) if you studied at Julliard then you can teach US

Do you know the difference between MIDI and AUDIO?


And on PC side are you a limited user who checks email once in a while or a power user who writes assembler code. Do know what a user account control is in Windows, know the difference between the file Explorer and Internet Explorer, etc.

and BTW: HELLO and Welcome

Larry

I appreciate the kind words, however, there are others here who create really nice music and do not use my workflow pattern.

Thank you for listening to some of my music..... most of it was done following the pattern I set out in the first post I made on this thread. It works... and having Sonar LE is a great thing..... jump in and make music.