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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 117
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 117 |
I am confused why RealBand and BIAB work differently with regard to re-routing MIDI data to a DXi/VSTi synth. In RealBand when I select to re-rout MIDI data to DXi/VSTi (Forte) I don't have to select any of the MIDI output driver(s). I have available "Microsoft MIDI Mapper" and "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth" but neither are selected. It plays MIDI out to Forte and works fine. In BIAB when I try to do the same I get yellow error messages, silence, and sometime crashes. BIAB gives me 3 choices "No MIDI/Sound Output", "Microsoft MIDI Mapper", or "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth" and always one is selected even when the box is checked to re-rout to DXi/VSTi. No matter which of the 3 is selected by mouse click a box pops up telling me they won't be used because I have DXi/VSTi selected. Ok fine, that is exactly the way I want it. Then when I try to play a song a yellow error message pops up telling me that the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth is in use by another program. It doesn't matter which of the 3 choices are selected because I always get the "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth is in use by another program" error message. I thought both RealBand and BIAB ignore the MIDI output driver(s) when re-routing to DXi/VSTi correct? Normally this is never a problem for me because I almost always use a MIDI Sport and a Ketron SD2 but sometimes I am mobile and just want to use my notebook PC audio chipset. Dave
Microsoft Surface Pro, Thunderbolt 4, Windows 11, Scarlett Audio Interface, 2025 BIAB & RB, FL Studio Producer, Studio One Producer, Melodyne Editor, Ozone Advanced.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
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Joined: May 2003
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Dave you are alittle confused on this. Look carefully at the wording in both programs.
In RB it says " re-route MIDI playback to default DXi/VSTi" You check the box and using the drop down choose the DXi/VSTi. All playback will be through this synth.
In BIAB it says "Use VSTi/DXi synth" check this and another menu comes up were you choose the synth for all playback. Pretty much the same as RB.
Now "Route through to MIDI driver" this is the odd one. This ,if checked, will route whatever comes in on the MIDI IN port to the MIDI driver you have selected under MIDI Output Drivers. If not checked it will send the MIDI in to the VSTi/DXi.
It's their use of the word ROUTE that is confusing things.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 117
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 117 |
Thanks John. I understand your point but I don't have a musical keyboard on the MIDI in nor do I plan to use my computer keyboard for MIDI input. I can't get BIAB to play any MIDI music because it insists I must have something for MIDI out even when I have DXI/VSTi and Forte selected. Must I have to have either Microsoft MIDI Mapper or Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth available to make BIAB work? I guess I don't have Microsoft MIDI Mapper on my PC and Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth seems to always be utilized by some other application. This has been a problem since I bought this PC with Windows Vista almost 2 years ago. I have just been working around the problem by using RealBand or the Ketron SD2 for MIDI output. Dave
Microsoft Surface Pro, Thunderbolt 4, Windows 11, Scarlett Audio Interface, 2025 BIAB & RB, FL Studio Producer, Studio One Producer, Melodyne Editor, Ozone Advanced.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,486
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,486 |
Hi Dave
It is best to have Microsoft GS Wavetable selected as Midi Mapper has caused problems in this set up
Have you entered into the DXi page and chosen VSC DXi
jazzman
BIAB - RealBand - 2022
Windows 10 64
Zoo computer with 7i processor- SSD 1TB -2TB HDD
Roland keyboards
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 117
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 117 |
Thanks Jazzman. I just tried entering the DXi window and changing to Roland VSC and still the same error message "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth in use by another program". I did a search on Google and it seems there are a lot of problems with Windows Vista using the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth. Does anybody know of another output driver I can use then have BIAB find and add it as an available selection in the MIDI Output Driver(s) selection box? I only have 3 choices: <No MIDI/Sound Output>; Microsoft MIDI Mapper; Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth. Roland VSC, Quicktime, and many others are MIDI output drivers. They are on my PC. Why can't BIAB find them and show them as a selection in the MIDI Output Driver(s) box?
Microsoft Surface Pro, Thunderbolt 4, Windows 11, Scarlett Audio Interface, 2025 BIAB & RB, FL Studio Producer, Studio One Producer, Melodyne Editor, Ozone Advanced.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439 |
G'day Dave,
I dunno if this will help, but in Windows, the MIDI Mapper, by default, points to the MS GS Wavetable Synth. From your last message I'm guessing you have vista..? If so, then you don't even have an applet to change this!
WRT Quicktime, I believe it has it's own MIDI softsynth built in which is not accessible outside of Quicktime...
I assume you are wanting to use the DXi version of VSC? If so, then selecting "no MIDI/sound output" is acceptable as you will not be using an external MIDI synth anyhow. All BIAB MIDI output will go to the DXi synth which is what you seem to want.
As an experiment, I just set both my MIDI input AND output to "No MIDI/Sound..." and, with "Use VST/DXi Synth" selected and the VSC DXi selected in the DXi dialogue, loaded and played a .mid file without any problems.
You should also be able to do this.
Last edited by Lawrie; 06/28/09 06:28 PM.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 117
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 117 |
Hi Lawrie, thanks for your input. Are you in western Australia? If so we are in the same time zone. I am using Windows Vista Home Premium. I tried what you suggested by selecting no MIDI input and output and with Roland VSC selected for DXi output. I get the same error message and no sound output. Just to try something different I selected MME for audio output instead of the ASIO I was using and then everything worked no matter if I selected "No MIDI/Sound output", "Microsoft MIDI Mapper", or "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth". It seems my Sound Reality ASIO driver for my Sigmatel audio chip set is causing the conflict.
Has anyone here gotten the MIDI output to DXi/VSTi to work using ASIO in BIAB? I just tried ASIO4ALL as an alternative. I get all the same error messages and even a message that BIAB stopped responding but then it begins to play music. Seems BIAB is very unstable when using any DXi/VSTi with ASIO. If you don't select "ASIO always on" in the ASIO driver it marginally works if you don't mind dealing with all the error messages when you press play. If you select "ASIO always on" the program just crashes. RealBand works just fine with DXi/VSTi and ASIO.
Microsoft Surface Pro, Thunderbolt 4, Windows 11, Scarlett Audio Interface, 2025 BIAB & RB, FL Studio Producer, Studio One Producer, Melodyne Editor, Ozone Advanced.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439 |
G'day Dave, ahh, I don't recall you mentioning the ASIO driver - that'll be where the MIDI Mapper conflict was coming from. I bet something was opening it as an input(?) device and seizing the wav output as a result. I had similar problems with ASIO4ALL when I was preparing this: http://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful/vstfdum.pdf I found I needed to be fairly careful with the VSTHOST configuration Personally, I've found BIAB to be good with ASIO provided the ASIO driver was stable. Please note, you'll have trouble running both BIAB and RB at the same time with ASIO selected. To quote Mac: "ASIO is a one man dawg"  BTW, I'm on the East coast actually mate, several hours in front. NSW Central Coast to be a little more accurate...
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 117
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 117 |
Thanks again Lawrie. I live in Shenzhen, not too far from Hong Kong and 2 hour behind you. BIAB works very well with ASIO as long as I am not trying re-route the MIDI to a DXi/VSTi synth. It just always seemed strange to me that there is no problem doing that with RealBand. I never run more than one audio program at a time so that has never been a issue with me regarding ASIO. Maybe it is my combination of using Vista (32 bit), BIAB, DXi, and ASIO. It would be interesting if any other users with that same combination can get it to work. In the BIAB forum I have read about many giving up on ASIO and just sticking to MME. I wonder if those that had given up on ASIO were trying to use it with a DXi synth. I guess I will just have to limit myself to RealBand when only using my notebook PC audio chipset. There are only a couple of features I need missing in RealBand that are in BIAB. If PG Music can add those to RealBand I would probably never use BIAB at all.
Microsoft Surface Pro, Thunderbolt 4, Windows 11, Scarlett Audio Interface, 2025 BIAB & RB, FL Studio Producer, Studio One Producer, Melodyne Editor, Ozone Advanced.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439 |
G'day Dave,
umm, mate, probably the main reason anyone would want to use ASIO is to minimise/eliminate latency. As you aren't using an external MIDI device for either input or output then ASIO is probably unnecessary.
That said, if you read the PDF I linked you to further up then you'll note that I was having quite some difficulty with latency and inconsistent tempo problems in my vista test bed HP notebook. ASIO solved that for me.
If you aren't having latency type issues then just run MME. It'll be fine.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 117
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 117 |
Thanks Lawrie. Your "VST for Dummies" pdf is helpful. I read and saved it. Even though I am not using any external MIDI devices I guess I have become spoiled with the quick response I get with ASIO, no lag when I press play after I edit. I can certainly work around the problem I have with BIAB.
Microsoft Surface Pro, Thunderbolt 4, Windows 11, Scarlett Audio Interface, 2025 BIAB & RB, FL Studio Producer, Studio One Producer, Melodyne Editor, Ozone Advanced.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 791
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 791 |
Hello Dave, As Lawrie was saying, MME is the best option as long as you are having no trouble with latency. MME is usually more reliable, and far less likely to cause crashes. However, if you do want to use ASIO, this information should help: - selecting "Microsoft GS Wavetable", "MIDI Mapper", or "No MIDI" will all produce the same results. This is because they all send MIDI to the GS Wavetable ("No MIDI" sends MIDI to the default MIDI driver in Windows which is the GS Wavetable). - the ASIO4ALL driver, and probably others, conflict with the GS Wavetable (this is what causes the "...in use by another application..." error) - so, because of this, you need a neutral driver. You can download the Loopbe1 driver for free from this page (last link on the page): http://www.nerds.de/en/download.html- you won't actually be using the driver, but simply having it selected for output (don't select it for input) should stop the error messages
Blake
PG Music Inc.
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