|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129 |
Hi all,
...trying to get a little more comfortable with modulations - both hearing them AND composing with them.
I was wondering if you veterans and theorists out there might be able to share which modulations are most common and some sample songs.
I've read in the Ted Green books that it is common for musicians to modulate to a key that's a minor third up from the current, but I'm not sure why that is (he says it sounds really good of course).
Also, I know in hard core jazz, you can modulate any measure, but that doesn't mean that it "sounds good" (of course that depends on your taste).
Looking forward to your advice on this; book titles and website links always welcome.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,736
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,736 |
Lenovo YOGA 900 Window s 10 Home 64bit M4 pro Mac mini 1tb HD 24GB mem casio wk7500 presonus audiobox i2 usb interface
casio wk-7500
biab & realband 2025 everything pk both with Current builds
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,505
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,505 |
Very common to modulate up a fourth as well. Quite typical of a bridge.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,869
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,869 |
Rhythms changes modulate around the cycle in the bridge, useful if near essential set of changes for Jazz.
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,801
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,801 |
Modulation is in it's most basic form, simply a change of key. Most common modulations are up...half step or full step. It adds a new level of energy to the song.... generally towards the end....after the chorus....It's the kind of modulation most people are familiar with. However.... Conway Twitty's song... Lay You Down.... de-modulates several times towards the end on chorus repeats. Stepping down in key on each repeat of the short chorus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoUnKSw92Q4 skip to 2 minutes..this is a live version and not the studio version.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129 |
as always - thanks so much for the great advice, examples, and links.
Now some related questions - I've read that it is very important for musicians to know the 'circle of 4ths' - or 'circle of 5ths'.
Now I have memorized it - pretty easy:
C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb B E A D G...C F
My questions:
1.) what is the difference between the circle of 4ths and 5ths
2.) when you play the circles, do you do it with chord qualities of all majors, or all minors, or all 7ths ? If so, can you share some particular song examples
3.) what are some other ways to apply these circles directly into:
a.) transcribing songs
b.) your compositions
Am I even asking the right questions - do I 'know' what I 'don't know', or do I NOT know what I don't know lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,495
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,495 |
Thanks for posting PghboeMike...very interesting links and a great site you have there too!
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2026, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,869
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,869 |
as always - thanks so much for the great advice, examples, and links.
Now some related questions - I've read that it is very important for musicians to know the 'circle of 4ths' - or 'circle of 5ths'.
Now I have memorized it - pretty easy:
C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb B E A D G...C F
My questions:
1.) what is the difference between the circle of 4ths and 5ths
2.) when you play the circles, do you do it with chord qualities of all majors, or all minors, or all 7ths ? If so, can you share some particular song examples
3.) what are some other ways to apply these circles directly into:
a.) transcribing songs
b.) your compositions
Am I even asking the right questions - do I 'know' what I 'don't know', or do I NOT know what I don't know lol The circle of fourths ascending is identical to the circle of fifth descending, and vica versa There are other cycles: chromatic, whole tone, diminished. For blues the most important are the whole tone descending, and the cycle of fourths ascending and fifths ascending, as these are used regularly in the 12 bar If you can visualise the circle of fourths, then you can take a lot from it, apart from just the fourths. For example, the II V I is laid along its borders (one to the left one ti the right of a given position), and the minor thirds are at 90 degrees to each other. |Also the key signatures are easily arranged. Did you notice that 2#s (D) (is opposite 2 bs (Bb) and three flats opposite three sharps, etc... I once made a clock with the cycle on it. You can buy them too, but making one in grained the image in my head. Can you see the whole cycle (4th) thing in your head? For instance what is opposite Eb on the cycle? Z
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 897
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 897 |
Hi guys......
"G-Daddy" is still modulating around RV Parks in Florida...presently now residing in a RV park located in "Old Homosassa"...Still have my Studio Equipment, Guitars, Keyboards and rack stuff!
After singing a set at a local spot, "Neon Leon's Zydeco Steak House", someone called up a request for Brubeck's "Take Five", which was a big hit recording in the 50's, with drummer Joe Morello "modulating" into a sorta strange 5/4 beat territory, plus, that song, except for the Manhattan Transfer might have wished to give it some lyrics??
Well, I too decided to forgo a vocal approach... and so I soon modulated out-de-door...in a hurry.
Try to walk a straight line, much less try to sing lyrics with Morello tapping his sticks to that "Brubeck Beat"!!
Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
Korg...Karma,Triton Classic, PA-80, M-1+
AkaiSampler-S5000, Roland.. X5080 Rack/G-1000 Arranger
Various Guitars/Basses Amps Pedals Rec.Equip.
Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® users: Build 1237 is now available!
Already a Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows user? Stay up to date and download the build 1237 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
PowerTracks Pro 2026 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks 2026 is here—bringing powerful new enhancements designed to make your production workflow faster, smoother, and more intuitive than ever.
The enhanced Mixer now shows Track Type and Instrument icons for instant track recognition, while a new grid option simplifies editing views. Non-floating windows adopt a modern title bar style, replacing the legacy blue bar.
The Master Volume is now applied at the end of the audio chain for consistent levels and full-signal master effects.
Tablature now includes a “Save bends when saving XML” option for improved compatibility with PG Music tools. Plus, you can instantly match all track heights with a simple Ctrl-release after resizing, and Add2 chords from MGU/SGU files are now fully supported... and more!
Get started today—first-time packages start at just $49.
Already using PowerTracks Pro Audio? Upgrade for as little as $29 and enjoy the latest improvements!
Order now!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,048
Posts799,352
Members40,017
| |
Most Online44,367
Mar 4th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean