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Morning folks...trying to break out of my midi only world and step into using some sheet music to input songs. Run into a bit of a problem, seems there are some chords that BIAB doesn't recognize. Mostly, these are suspended chords. For example, Csus2, G7sus4, Fsus2+added6th. While I can find these in chord books that show the fingerings for guitar or piano, how do I get them into BIAB or RB? Is there a way to manually add these?
In reviewing the 2015 BIAB owners manual, in chapter 15: "Reference" it talks about adding shortcuts for chords that BIAB/RB doesn't recognize but that seems to be just shortcuts not the actual chords.
I've also played around with the PG Chord Builder, but again that doesn't seem to recognize these particular suspended chords.
So how do you guys handle chords that BIAB doesn't recognize?
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Hi Jeff, In BIAB ... In most music, if you ever see 'sus' it will mean sus4 (where the 4 is understood). If we consider the C major scale, the second note is "d" and the ninth note is also "d". In other words, if a chord has a '2' in it, it's worth looking through BIAB chords that contain a '9'. One of these ninth-based chords will probably do the job. Hope this helps, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Just look under Help-Index-and type in chord list for all the chords BIAB supports. Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Thanks Noel, appreciate your insight. I guess I still have a question though. If I'm trying to get a Csus2 (C-D-E) and insert a 9th, although this is still technically a Csus2 isn't the 9th an octave higher or lower depending? Wouldn't sound the same would it?
In deference to Eddie, I never claimed to be a musician, just a technician. As a result, perhaps I'm nit picking this too much?
Last edited by MountainSide; 01/05/15 05:56 AM.
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Well, technically, a sus chord actually substitutes the 3rd with either the 4th or the 2nd; whereas an add9 adds the 9th to the major chord.
So a Csus2 would be: C-D-G (the E is omitted)
A Csus4 (often shown just as Csus) would be: C-F-G (the E is omitted)
A Cadd9 would be: C-E-G-D
And a C9 is actually an extension of C7, so it would b: C-E-G-Bb-D
BIAB supports the sus designation and implements it as a sus4.
BIAB also supports the add9, but implements it as a 2 (you would enter C2), in which the 2 may or may not be in the correct octave. That may or may not matter in a band (versus a single instrument) setting, depending on which instrument(s) play the 2. So sometimes you get C-D-E-G and sometimes you get C-E-G-D (and possibly C-E-G-C-D, depending upon the style).
BIAB also support the 9 designation properly: C9 = C-E-G-Bb-D
I guess that makes it clear as mud.
I wish BIAB would allow for the "add9" designation, and implemented it in the correct octave. I wouldn't think that would be too difficult to parse from the entered chord. If you want the close harmony, then it should also allow for an "add2", which is different than a "sus2". You see these an awful lot in music notation.
Likewise, I also see a lot of "no3". It would be nice to have that supported as well. Technically "C5" omits the 3, but not all styles do that. "No3" explicitly says don't play the 3, versus implies it.
My $0.02 worth.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Appreciate the follow-up John and for the further elaboration. You guessed right, the chords I'm trying to implement are for a strummed acoustic RT with a picked acoustic RT....no other instruments or drums. I'll play with it both ways and see if the C2 or the Cadd9 makes a difference in what is heard over the CSus2. Do appreciate, as always, your insight and guidance.
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Jeff,
One other chord you might like to test run ...
As John says, Csus2 = C-D-G on a C bass.
Compare this to Gsus = Gsus4 = G-C-D on a G bass.
Therefore, another possibility to get a Csus2 sound that might do the job is to use Gsus/C (that is, a Gsus chord with a C bass). Since BIAB supports slash chords, this one is worth trying.
For what it's worth, any sus4 chord is also a sus2 chord depending on the bass used.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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That's an interesting take Noel...definitely will try that today as I struggle with this. Have to admit, if it wasn't for the great forum members here, I would have given up on this song days ago.
I would really like to get this one down, not only because it's my first take on sheet music, but because it has some of the greatest vocal harmonies I've ever heard (Crosby, Stills and Nash: Helplessly Hoping). It seems to be of a particular challenge because it's acoustic guitar only (strum and pick)....no bass, drums etc....so its pretty much has to be right on.
Your continued support is most appreciated.
Jeff (down in today's warmest U.S. spot...southern Florida!)
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Hi, Jeff -
Well, in the Florida panhandle, we're at 53 degrees, but it's supposed to be going down to 20 tomorrow night.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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That's just not right John...that's not FL temperatures at all. Should hit 85 here this afternoon, cold front comes through tomorrow dropping tomorrow night's temp down to 46, then we're back up to 80 by Thursday. Fishing's great, live music venues packed...they play cover songs...sorry Eddie.
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Fsus2+added6th = Bb69/F
HTH
Alan
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Fsus2+added6th = Bb69/F
HTH
Alan Allan a Fsus2+added6th = F G C D while a Bb69/F = Bb D F G C so wouldn't a Bb69 add a Bb somewhere in the chord? I have always assumed that it would or should but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe a Csus4/D (C-F-G-D) or a Csus2/F (C-D-G-F) would work?
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
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Allan a Fsus2+added6th = F G C D while a Bb69/F = Bb D F G C so wouldn't a Bb69 add a Bb somewhere in the chord? I have always assumed that it would or should but maybe I'm wrong.
I see where you're coming from. I thought the Fsus implied a sus4 (Bb) as well as the G and C. Perhaps you're right. In that case i would say Gsus/F would be right after all. Alan
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Interesting discussion guys, thanks for all of your insight and suggestions. I'm working through all of them trying to get this to sound right.
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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