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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2014
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Some of the styles have "HiQ" sounds that I'd like to permanently change to non-SampleTank VSTi instruments. Can this be done (at the style level) or is that "above and beyond" the design of BIAB?
For example, I have several instruments that I use in the VSTi's "Sforzando" and "TruePianos" and it would be nice if they just "defaulted" at the style level in BIAB.
For now what I do after I pick a style I like is override the "HiQ" instrument on a track and save it as a new "prototype" song/style, but I was wondering if it's possible to just tweak the style itself (as if the style never referred to the PG "HiQ" instrument in the first place).
Thanks,
Chris
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Can you supply and example of one of those styles?
BIAB2026
Windows 10 Pro (Never Windows 11!)
WA6NCB
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 507
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Try this:
With the style loaded: Styles Menu => Stylemaker => Edit Current Style => Misc => More... At the bottom of the "More" dialog, clear the plugin. Back out to the main stylemaker window, and under Files menu, save to a new style. If you want to permanently assign a RT or midi soloist to the track, use the controls further up in the More dialog, ie. "Instrument" and "Soloist/RT".
If you want to just generally assign a midi patch to a BB track, click the "Pat." button on the main stylemaker window.
Untested, but should work. The main thing to remember is to save the style as a new one. Then you can diddle without fear of messing up original style. HTH Welcome to forum.
-Ron
Edit - Whoops, not sure I answered your orig question. In principle, should be able to do what you want with "Choose Plugin" button on that More window, but looks like choices are limited to only those for which BB has defined a .tgs preset. If you learn how to roll your own .tgs file, let me know LOL. **
EDIT 2 - From a BB readme file in the DX Settings folder:
"This folder is used to save presets for your DX Audio plugins and DX Synths. DefaultDXAudio.tgs is a special name for the default Audio Plugin list loaded at bootup. DefaultDXiSynth.tgs is a special name for the default DXi Synth loaded at bootup.
You can save these TGS files from the DX Panel, accessed from the MIDI Driver dialog."
So you can set a default global VSTi. (Which I now realize I did a long time ago. It's the Cakewalk TTS-1) Can also set track by track defaults. Understood, you probably know all this, and are asking about control at the style level.**
** EDIT 3 - Actually, should be possible. 1) Save your own .tgs from the VST/DX plugins window (using the Save Group button), and 2) assign that preset in the StyleMaker More dialog. Post back if it works.
Last edited by rkl122; 01/11/15 01:26 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2014
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Hi jcland,
An example style is "_CAIRPGS.STY". When I load this style and click Load Song Demo, the Piano track has "2056:Piano, Rhythm CelticAir Ev 085" in a blue font (a MIDI Super Track). I pick a VST instrument and patch, play it and all is well.
Then I decide to tinker around and try a different MIDI Super Track. I click "Select MIDI Super Track for this track" from the pop up menu and get a dialog box "Choose from the list" with 2056 preselected. So far so good.
I scan through the list looking for a likely candidate to try and decide on 1887 (Piano Solo Accompaniment CountryPopJohn Ev 085) and click "OK".
BIAB then asks me "OK to add this SuperPatch to Piano track?: Hi-Q 001 01 Piano, Acoustic, Grand SampleTank.tgs" with options Yes, No, Cancel.
What I have been doing is clicking No to this and moving on with auditioning the new track.
The tweak that I'm inquiring about is whether there is an option somewhere or some way to perhaps tweak styles easily to get BIAB to realize that I don't want a SampleTank question after selecting a new MIDI Super Track at all, and that ideally, I'd really like BIAB to just remember my VST config for this style in the future.
I see another post from rkl122 that looks promising, so I'll review that and post back to both of you on my tinkering.
Thanks,
Chris
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2014
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Hi rkl122,
Yes, your "edit 3" is what worked. Thank you for this.
Now the only minor inconvenience is that because I am creating a "user style" they go in their own "category" (e.g. "My Styles") on the Select Style dialog and therefore do not show up in a "filter by" search unless you pre-select "My Styles". This is a minor issue though.
IMHO the category "All Styles" should be called "All PG Styles" or something similar to call out the fact that they are really a sub-category too, and not really "all" the styles in the folder(s). This was confusing to me until I started comparing what was in each category grouping...
Thanks, again.
Chris
P.S. BIAB still prompts with a "OK to add this SuperPatch" question if you audition another MIDI SuperTrack and choose it instead of the (new) default on the user style. So, you just need to click "No" and continue. It would be nice if patch loading could be its own process separate from picking a MIDI SuperTrack, but, whatever...
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 507
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Journeyman
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Hi Chris, glad to help and glad to hear it works, since I haven't actually tried it myself.
In fact, I was wondering something which perhaps you could confirm? Suppose you're creating a .tgs preset which contains a third party synth - on a specific track or as the default synth - and the synth itself has its own library of presets, but is not necessarily general midi compliant, and you've set it to a specific preset(s) on a specific channel. I'm thinking of a VSTi like Cakewalk's Dimension Pro, for example, with highly parameterized patches. (True Pianos seems to fit that category. I have it but have not played with it.). From your posts, I'm guessing all that info is saved in the .tgs preset... IOW, just by loading the style, you're ready to go with the pre-chosen sound(s). True? If so, this is a pretty powerful technique and, yeah, I'd encourage PG to work out those minor kinks..
Thanks for posting back. -Ron
Last edited by rkl122; 01/16/15 03:48 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2014
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Hi Ron,
Yes, it appears to do as you want. I don't have Dimension Pro, but I have Sforzando (which as I understand it is a similar rompler-based VSTi). I am able to set up several TGS files where the only difference is a tweak to a setting within Sforzando (e.g. changing the amount of sustain, volume, etc).
Once the TGS's are saved, I can choose the "Select MIDI Synth" menu from the mixer track popup, then select my TGS from the "Select a Preset F/X for track" dialog.
I also got the "Memo" window to display my preset notes by creating ".txt" files in the same folder as the TGS files (using the same base filename).
One little 'gotcha' that you may want to be aware of though, relative to referencing TGS files from STY files: be careful to plan folder locations and file names and "set it and forget it" so to speak. Once you link a TGS from within the Style Maker, it (of course) saves the entire file path and name of your TGS, so, if you later decide to rename or move your TGS, get ready to have to rebuild the STY.
I learned this after I decided to 'group' all my TGS files to their own folder (kind of like how the base app groups all the Amplitube TGS's separate from the SampleTank HiQ TGS's). I broke my user STY file that was referencing the (moved) TGS. Oops!
Hope this helps,
Chris
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 507
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Journeyman
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Hi Chris , wow yes, Thank you. That is very encouraging. It implies, for me at least, I can audition midi tracks with favorite endpoint synth sounds before moving the project from BB to DAW. Not that it couldn't be done before, but user test styles like these should make it more convenient. (Which you foresaw all along  ) Thanks again. - Ron PS. It occurs to me that these specialized .TGS preset styles could be used as plugin templates with which to audition the midi content of *any* ordinary BB style - midi or RT. There'd need to be a way to keep the BB styles from loading their associated instruments. Haven't found an override for that though. Sigh.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 78
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OP
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Hi Ron,
Yes, I agree with both your points. I think my confusion with BIAB right now is just getting used to the workflow and intended design of the app's features.
For example, now it's getting clearer to me that a "MIDI Super Track" is not just a MIDI stream played by a musician (the main point of using it), but it is also a software instrument target (SampleTank and Coyote for instance) and depending on the target software synth, probably also a patch number (e.g. Nylon Guitar vs Steel String Guitar, Soprano Sax vs Tenor Sax, etc).
It is good that the track menu allows us to load the MIDI Super Track to get to the artist performance, and 'discard' the reference to the SampleTank/Coyote instrument and choose an alternate TGS.
Being able to tweak the STY files with new VST assignments and settings specific to the synth's instrument is a time saver because as I become more familiar with Styles and MIDI Super Tracks it is nice to 'capture' specific MIDI VST's that I have heard work in context with the artist's performance. That was the reason for this thread to begin with.
Thanks again for your help finding how to tweak the STY files.
Chris
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
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This thread has some interesting and useful information, especially for those people that want to pair a specific softh synth with a specific super midi track. Unfortunately, the postings read as though some false starts are intermingled with the correct steps.
May I suggest consolidating your efforts and post the correct steps in the Tips and Tricks forum section? I'm sure that down the road many members will benefit from the effort and guidance.
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