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Steinberg has been working on this for some time. Its now possible to start with a MIDI file, pass it to a studio with a grand piano miked up, play the recording, and then record it in hi quality with good mikes, then send it back to the sequencer. http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/vst/vst_connect/start.htmlSe 5.15 minutes into this video Z
Last edited by ZeroZero; 01/18/15 09:45 AM.
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Are you suggesting that something like this be added to BiaB?
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Frankly No Peter, not added to the present program, unless there is a rewrite. I think that BIAB needs a compete redesign, if this were to be the case, then ideas like this should be considered.
I am sure you understand that a MIDI performance using samples is inferior to a recording of a MIDI file playing a (suitable) instrument which is then recorded as Audio. I put it up as a form of lateral thinking. I don't know if you understand what I mean by this but Po this idea (De Bono) its neither right nor wrong, its creative thinking..
I would hope for some form of Melodyne like feature in a new rewrite.
Z
Last edited by ZeroZero; 01/20/15 04:56 AM.
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Sent you a present Peter
Z
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I get the idea, and I KNOW this is wish list stuff and don't want to rain on the parade but ???
I watched all the videos and a couple things I'm trying to figure out. Not the least of which is the fact that this would get very expensive, very fast, to PAY those artists, technicians, and studios. I don't think many users here could afford it, I'm fairly well off and I'm certain I couldn't afford it.
I doubt artists are going to play your MIDI "score" (whether notated, "follow the MIDI" or combined) - for free. And the ones that WOULD do it for free are probably not at the skill level I want to record anyway. Besides, was your score and arrangement and nuanced MIDI recording of that instrument so good - that pro level player, or at least a player better than you, that THEY can play what you heard in your head?
I assume you can't play that instrument yourself, or at least can't play it that well, or you would have played it and recorded it yourself, would you not?
If that is the case, why is your arrangement for that instrument through a really good synth on your own PC (or even using high end external HW) going to be made that much better by another player, yes on a real instrument, who has to interpret your idea(s) of how it should sound?
And recording techs/engineers do NOT work for free, they need to put food on table just like the rest of us. Also studio time and equipment use is also not free, someone has to pay the freight for wear and tear of equipment used.
OK let's forget the REAL players above.
Even for second half of that video, the part about you sending MIDI data to some studio to have that MIDI file played by a real instrument, not to mention expertly mic'ed and recorded, thus allowing said studio to make a high quality audio recording for you.
How many MIDI compatible instruments exist besides a velocity key struck instrument such as that Yamaha MIDI piano. Yes there are possibly a few EP's and organs and yes, clearly, all existing MIDI HW boards (Roland, Yama, Korg, some MOOG, etc.) would work. But you can buy those boards and racks yourself, and probably in the long term cheaper then renting via a 3rd party studio.
But besides those, are there any REAL wind, brass, stringed, bowed, plucked, or even percussive sets so engineered and configured like that piano or any of the already MIDI ROMplers, sampler playback, analog or digital HW synths?
I'm trying to see how I could get my MIDI file arrangement of say a trumpet, guitar, violin, oboe, or even a jazz brush drum kit to be triggered and played: just the notes at proper volume (velocity) - FORGET nuances like vibrato, etc. - on a REAL trumpet, guitar, violin, oboe, drum kit?
Guitar: is that slide up one note or bend up one note? is that a hammer-on with pull-off or two fast picked notes? is that a pick up-stroke or down stroke?
Drums: - ride cymbal: play the edge or play center? For the bell on that cymbal is it high on the bell or low on the bell?
And even if those traditional non-piano instruments exist who gets to decide, direct and control which mic's, what type of mics, how far mic'ed, frankly, HOW it is mic'ed at all. Then which/what preamps, etc. get used for the recording.
Again great idea but I don't see home amateurs, semi-pros, typical working stiff full time music pros (who supplement income with teaching, brick laying, drug dealing, etc.) affording this.
I think this kind of thing is aimed at already PRO STUDIO use by other PRO STUDIOs - folks like Sony, Paramount, Disney, other well known labels, and by people at the level of PRODUCTION of say a Hans Zimmer or similar.
Just my 2 cents
Larry
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Larry, you take this too seriously, but its my fault entirely, for posting this in the wish list. It should have been in the Off Topic forum. I just find the opportunity to achieve this intriguing... Of Topic: Imagine a room - anywhere - in the room a good MIDI enabled real piano, properly miked by experts, good natural reverb. Imagine a website accepting MIDI files for a fee. When the fee is paid a slot of time is booked for the piano. The piano is set up to play the MIDI files Automatically, to store and then send the wav file back to the user Its all lateral thinking, you may know of Bono, I say Po again. Z
Last edited by ZeroZero; 02/01/15 12:21 AM.
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And recording techs/engineers do NOT work for free, they need to put food on table just like the rest of us. Also studio time and equipment use is also not free, someone has to pay the freight for wear and tear of equipment used.
OK let's forget the REAL players above.
Even for second half of that video, the part about you sending MIDI data to some studio to have that MIDI file played by a real instrument, not to mention expertly mic'ed and recorded, thus allowing said studio to make a high quality audio recording for you.
How many MIDI compatible instruments exist besides a velocity key struck instrument such as that Yamaha MIDI piano. Yes there are possibly a few EP's and organs and yes, clearly, all existing MIDI HW boards (Roland, Yama, Korg, some MOOG, etc.) would work. But you can buy those boards and racks yourself, and probably in the long term cheaper then renting via a 3rd party studio.
But besides those, are there any REAL wind, brass, stringed, bowed, plucked, or even percussive sets so engineered and configured like that piano or any of the already MIDI ROMplers, sampler playback, analog or digital HW synths?
I'm trying to see how I could get my MIDI file arrangement of say a trumpet, guitar, violin, oboe, or even a jazz brush drum kit to be triggered and played: just the notes at proper volume (velocity) - FORGET nuances like vibrato, etc. - on a REAL trumpet, guitar, violin, oboe, drum kit?
Guitar: is that slide up one note or bend up one note? is that a hammer-on with pull-off or two fast picked notes? is that a pick up-stroke or down stroke?
Drums: - ride cymbal: play the edge or play center? For the bell on that cymbal is it high on the bell or low on the bell?
And even if those traditional non-piano instruments exist who gets to decide, direct and control which mic's, what type of mics, how far mic'ed, frankly, HOW it is mic'ed at all. Then which/what preamps, etc. get used for the recording.
Again great idea but I don't see home amateurs, semi-pros, typical working stiff full time music pros (who supplement income with teaching, brick laying, drug dealing, etc.) affording this.
I think this kind of thing is aimed at already PRO STUDIO use by other PRO STUDIOs - folks like Sony, Paramount, Disney, other well known labels, and by people at the level of PRODUCTION of say a Hans Zimmer or similar.
Just my 2 cents
Larry
Reply to the specifics; Larry, since you ask, I have been playing for over forty years years, orchestras, classical, jazz, rock, blues. I am a multinstrumentalist and a composer, I can program too. I play mostly piano these days, I can play the brass and woodwinds too, its tenor sax that's in my DNA. I was envisiging automated players. Maybe I did not make that clear enough. Let me explain - near me is a very interesting place http://www.stalbansorgantheatre.org.uk/In this building there are some vintage Victorian organs and automated instruments. You can see some pictures of these beautiful instruments - some are the size of a large van. The Audio samples have been recorded badly IMO. One instrument they have is an 'automatic violin'. This instrument is a real violin, it is played by a copper disk that spins a disk that substitutes for a bow. The disk is made of an abrasive substance. I was very surprised to hear how good this instrument sounded. I asked the engineer how may disks he had, and he mentioned he had a program that meant that he could play the instrument from a MIDI file. Obviously with todays technology, micro control of such a wheel is more closely achievable. I see no reason why bowing could not be accurately emulated. Other instruments such as sax are in this collection. Some instruments lend themselves more closely to emulation. It depends on the method used to produce the sound. I could imagine automatic mouthpieces for brass. I don't really know where the research is in this area, I bet Yamaha are doing something. They already have a fine grand. On the sound quality I have a very good digital piano, and a good system, a dedicated studio too. I don't have a classical grand piano certainly not a Steinway, or a Bosendorfer 290. I dont have the top of the line mics either. If I record my piano it does a decent job, but I can hear its lacking. There is a certain real reverb which begins with the sympathetic resonance in the strings, bounces of the wood and the room and then is picked up accurately by top quality mics. This I can't capture here. I could get a recording through this idea. Yes it would cost, but I could see how for those 'special moments' home users would be willing to pay for certain MIDI files, even if they would have to 'book a lsot' and wait. thinking outside the band in a box Z 
Last edited by ZeroZero; 02/01/15 12:24 AM.
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I would think that if one had a piano such as The Bösendorfer 200 E3 Disklavier™, ++ CHECK IT OUT HERE ++, set up for tracking in a recording studio one could obtain a professional recording.
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Yes Jim, this would be half the solution, and you would also need to auto feed the MIDI data, play it, redord and store it, then push it back to the end user.
I hope some one does this
Z
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>> Sent you a present Peter
Thanks! Looks like a cool book.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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