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Yep, makes sense. I would say if anyone has even the slightest problem with pitch, relying totally on the ears would seem counter productive anyway... LOL! I am a visual learner. My lying eyes are not as unreliable as my lying ears. So seeing and hearing should work. At any rate, I purchased Melodyne Essential yesterday, we'll just see what happens.
My knew favorite quote: Moderation in all things, including moderation.
- Carolyne
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Carolyne, If you, or anyone else using Windows, would like to try using a pitch correction program, you may want to try the FREE VST called GSnap created by a British company called GVST. The download link for GSNAP can be found ++ HERE ++ Both 32 and 64 bit versions for Windows are available. [ u]Note: Click on the 32 or 64 bit link BELOW the Windows emblem. The big, green download is advertising![/u] The homepage also has links for a screenshot of the VST, online manual and a pdf manual. There are many "how-to use GSnap" videos available on YouTube. ++ HERE ++ is one of the better videos in my opinion.
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I'll add that the human ear is not as good at detecting deviation as is technology.
Here's a challenge to anybody who has Melodyne:
Take a vocal track you think is pretty good. Export it to Melodyne, and compare your sung notes to the grid. I think even a good singer will be surprised to visually confront the difference between the note they sang and the note they THOUGHT they sang.
What's more enlightening is that the deviations go in both directions.. some flat, some sharp.
Whether or not you choose to correct anything is still a personal choice. But it can be enlightening to see what you're really asking the listener to accept.
AMEN!!!!! Oh yes... using Melodyne has actually made me a better singer. I was able to see visually, the bad habits I had of "pulling back on notes" and several other things..... So even now, when I see the classic blob that shows I did that... I will practice that note a few times the right way and punch the heck out of it. When I work on other folks vocals now, especially if they are recording in the studio at the time....I can load ME and show them what they are doing..... really a nice teaching tool.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Great points you make there Herb. I'm taking notice too!
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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AMEN!!!!! Oh yes... using Melodyne has actually made me a better singer. I was able to see visually, the bad habits I had of "pulling back on notes" and several other things..... Being a visual person, I've also added this tool to my arsenal: Singing CoachIt allows me to see the vocals live as I'm singing them. All you do is import a MIDI file of the vocal melody. It plots your live voice with the MIDI notes and you can see whether you nailed the notes. You can also transpose the whole MIDI track up and down to fit the vocal range of the singer. I can also run my vocals through Singing Coach as I'm recording them to RB or Audition.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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looks like a pretty useful product for practicing Steve!
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looks like a pretty useful product for practicing Steve! Yup, with real time view you can raise or lower your voice to get yourself back on pitch. I haven't played with Melodyne enough yet to see if it has some kind of real time ability. I've just been pulling .wav files in to it.
Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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looks like a pretty useful product for practicing Steve! Yup, with real time view you can raise or lower your voice to get yourself back on pitch. I haven't played with Melodyne enough yet to see if it has some kind of real time ability. I've just been pulling .wav files in to it. Melodyne Editor and it's varients, as we have been discussing here is NOT a real time VST. It works on recorded tracks.... you have to follow a few steps 1. record the audio part 2. insert the ME VST into the track bin 3. click on the capture tab in ME to enable it 4. start playback ....ME captures the audio during playback. 5. work on audio and save in one manner or another.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2009
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looks like a pretty useful product for practicing Steve! Yup, with real time view you can raise or lower your voice to get yourself back on pitch. I haven't played with Melodyne enough yet to see if it has some kind of real time ability. I've just been pulling .wav files in to it. Melodyne Editor and it's varients, as we have been discussing here is NOT a real time VST. It works on recorded tracks.... you have to follow a few steps 1. record the audio part 2. insert the ME VST into the track bin 3. click on the capture tab in ME to enable it 4. start playback ....ME captures the audio during playback. 5. work on audio and save in one manner or another. That was my understanding, that ME is a tool to use on recorded tracks. I'm sure there are smart people out there that can do some pretty remarkable things with technology. I'll be happy to be able to do the minimum. I'm still recovering from the 8 hrs yesterday that I took to switch out my Presonus Audio USB with Focusrite 6i6 and get it functioning. It's working, and is beautiful I might add, but I haven't the brain power to tackle ME at the moment. Figuring out that Scarlett MixControl was something else. Thank goodness for all the tutorials, some better than others. I am looking forward to the experience however...sort of excited about it. -Carolyne
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I'm still recovering from the 8 hrs yesterday that I took to switch out my Presonus Audio USB with Focusrite 6i6 and get it functioning. Figuring out that Scarlett MixControl was something else. Glad to hear you got the 6i6 Carolyne. Myself and a couple of others on here use that one as well so feel free to ask questions when you have them.
Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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I use it in the same way that Mario does (to create midi from audio). Just a note to those interested in using it this way. You do not have to purchase the product to create midi files from audio. The free player will do this for you.
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I use it in the same way that Mario does (to create midi from audio). Just a note to those interested in using it this way. You do not have to purchase the product to create midi files from audio. The free player will do this for you. What free player and where do you get it?
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Hi Kevin. I just downloaded the full trial version and when that expires you are just left with the ability to use it in "play" mode. In "play" mode you can open an audio file and do a "save as" to get the midi file.
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Joanne, That's good information that I'd bet most of us didn't know (I didn't)
Considering how often the question arises of how to turn audio into midi, and the fact that there's an excellent way to do it for free... your post is a keeper! Thanks!
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Just wanted to add that you must change the tempo in melodyne to match the tempo on your original recording otherwise you end up with a midi mess
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I just reread this entire thread and FWIW I'd like to perhaps put my comments in a better context. I'm not a technophobe and I certainly understand the necessity of using these programs for certain vocalists at certain times. I still do not feel that it is always needed.
I think Janice and I spend MUCH less time in the music world than many members here. We spend WAY more time on mountain bikes than we do with music production. We haven't played a gig in 13 years and we took a 10 year sabbatical from writing or playing any music of any genre. Of course we continued to listen all the time. When I switched to an iMac in 2011 I started noodling around with GarageBand that came on it, and while looking for info about it on the net I discovered BIAB. And that resulted in us re-entering the writing/production world.
But, as much joy as we get from BIAB and the wonderful folks on this forum it is a simple "just for fun" thing. We come up with an idea, produce the song and move on. Our collabs are the most fun. The only time I ever hear Janice sing these tunes is when we record them. If invited to a jam session we'd have no material we could remember! What I'm leading up to is that learning Ozone 6, Nectar 2 and Logic Pro X has pushed my ole "pushing 70" brain to the max. To start parsing out vocals note by note for whatever slight correction might be needed would, for me, be extremely tedious and possibly suck the joy right out of what I'm doing.
Pardon the ramble I just didn't want folks who go through this process to think that I was being critical of them. I've just reached that point in my life where simple rules!
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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Bud,
I think all of your points are very well made, and I agree with all of them even though this discussion might look like I don't.
Part of what makes this discussion different than most is that it is actually several discussions rolled under the banner of one heading.
discussion 1: making music for music's sake
As I see it, that's you and Janice. This is the real deal, not driven by industry nonsense, contracts, current trends. That kind of music can be anything it wants to be, because it answers to nobody but the person making it. You can take creative risks, or not... totally your call. Plus, you're both good enough that the idea of "fixing" anything would have to seem ridiculous. So in the context of that discussion, Melodyne doesn't fit very well.
discussion #2: adapting one's music to today's market
Anybody who has even remote hopes of presenting their songs anywhere in the today's music marketplace is basically competing in a world of technical perfection. Expectations are high, attention spans are low. If your song doesn't WOW in 12 seconds, people move on. So there is an incentive to pursue perfection... and frankly, compared to the tools available in pro studios, melodyne isn't much of a competitive advantage. But its the best thing that's available to home recording enthusiasts.
discussion #3: the techno hobbyist
This would be me. I have no intentions of ever trying to sell my songs. I'm not as talented as most of the people who post in the showcase. But if I put a lot of time into a song, recording most of the tracks myself, not using real tracks... I find that my playing introduces glitches that simply aren't there with real tracks, and Melodyne lets me tidy up the loose ends... timing issues especially.
discussion #4: the semi pro studio
A lot of people with home studios try to recoup some of their investment by charging others for their recording services. As a commercial venture, it isn't practical to do what people did in the past (spending days to achieve the perfect take). It makes more sense to bring the band in, record them, bill them, and fix the flubs after they leave.
Its a true statement that the greats from the past didn't have melodyne, and their music is still awesome. But *I* think it's also true that if those original recordings were presented to a studio today, they wouldn't make it past the secretary.
Bottom line, there are multiple situations, and Melodyne isn't the solution for all of them... but for others its the best solution available at a modest price.
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This is part of what makes bluegrass so popular. Lots of people don't like synthetic anything, and bluegrass is the one genre that has steadfastly resisted technology's influence. Bluegrass is real, and because bluegrass musicians don't depend on technology to fix anything, they tend to be very very very good! In a post apocalyptic world, whatever musicians are left will probably be playing bluegrass (there's a song there somewhere  )
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