regarding note control: I was wondering if it would be helpful to sing through a hardware pitch correction device, and send the corrected audio to the program. That would save the program some overhead of having to pitch correct before it knows where to place the note.
Since that appears to be the major problem... the solution could be fairly simple and avaialble now to anyone who has a voice live or similar hardware for correcting vocal pitch.
Going back to Melodyne...
this wouldn't work for live performances... but for anyone who wants to record midi tracks using their voice as MIDI controller, Melodyne would offer several advantages:
1) it could pitch correct the voice automatically If you are going to send the notes to an instrument patch, most instruments are naturally more perfectly intonated than the human voice. Pitch correcting would increase realism.
2) you could use melodyne like piano roll to experiment and change your track after recording it
3) Melodyne can create all kinds of harmonies from a melody
4) Melodyne also provides other editing tools to fatten up or slim down a note, extend it, shorten it, slide into it, add or subtract vibrato, split it into multiple notes, change key etc etc
Also Melodyne has one of the best audio to MIDI converters available today. So if you have Melodyne you really don't need any other software IF you are not doing this live.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
So just to be perfectly clear to an admitted borderline midiot - are you guys saying I can sing a part into Melodyne and then replace the resulting midi file with another instrument and it will be as expressive as what he's doing with the cello in the video without me having to do a bunch of midi editing?
So just to be perfectly clear to an admitted borderline midiot - are you guys saying I can sing a part into Melodyne and then replace the resulting midi file with another instrument and it will be as expressive as what he's doing with the cello in the video without me having to do a bunch of midi editing?
Josie
DANG! I knew somebody would ask that!
Truth is, I don't know yet. I haven't had a chance to test it yet (regarding whether the nuance translates to the MIDI in Melodyne)
Everything else I can vouch for, as I have done all those things in the past in Melodyne. HOWEVER...
I know that Melodyne RECOGNIZES volume variance in its blobs, because it provides a way to control it. If it save expressive change as volume CCs, then it wouldn't be as good as Imitone, because all the good synths get their layering cues from VELOCITY.
But if it does recognize and export velocity, then I'd put a lot of faith in Melodyne.
The answer is easy to verify if you have Melodyne and the time to test it. 1) open Melodyne and sing your test melody, making sure there is lots of dynamic change in it.
2) export as MIDI and open it up in RB
3) go to piano roll and set the bottom piano roll window to see the velocity. If the velocity markers are all in a straight line, then it isn't capturing that information. If they are at different heights, then it is.
I'm trying to do my taxes today, but next time I take a break, I'll test this and report back.
OK, I just performed the experiment to determine what Melodyne can do regarding turning a vocal track into believable MIDI.
I recorded a short vocal melody in RB, Exported it as WAV opened it in Melodyne tweaked it a little, (but it might not have been necessary) saved it as MIDI reopened it in RB examined it in the piano roll to see if Melodyne captured the velocity changes. (it DID!) see graphic below:
As you can see the lower pane shows variation on the velocity. I applied a good soft synth that is capable of using the velocity difference to take advantage of different sounds at different velocities. As expected, the synth sounded different based on the velocity.
With a little practice, once you know how to obtain the velocity breakpoints your soft synth requires, you could really blow it out of the water with just your voice as MIDI controller!!
Here's my test. Grabbed a vocal line, saved it as midi in melodyne editor. Brought it into biab, transposed it down 12 semitones (I think) and changed the patch to cello.
The midi file didn't line up at all with the vocal line, though!!! Not sure why, might be user ignorance or maybe I didn't set the tempo correctly -- just a test, though.
I would have to be "more solid" on my vocal line to expect excellent results, I expect.
In Garritan, the effects section is set up very well for tailoring effects to the instrument. In my example, I added reverb with a long predelay and a long decay, and that was enough to make it sound pretty dang good. However, if I were using it in an actual project, I would definitely tweak the velocity and volumes to make it as realistic as possible.
I'm not sure there is a tweak-free solution out there. The stuff they're doing with Imitone in these videos is surely not the results all the early adopters are getting, or they'd be selling it as a finished product already.
Here's my test. Grabbed a vocal line, saved it as midi in melodyne editor. Brought it into biab, transposed it down 12 semitones (I think) and changed the patch to cello.
The midi file didn't line up at all with the vocal line, though!!! Not sure why, might be user ignorance or maybe I didn't set the tempo correctly -- just a test, though.
I would have to be "more solid" on my vocal line to expect excellent results, I expect.
I noticed that my MIDI and audio didn't automatically line up in RB... most likely Melodyne doesn't keep the dead space at the beginning that would have lined it up. But you should be able to use the "NUDGE MIDI" command to line it back up with the audio
all in all, it sounds like it did a pretty good job of making MIDI out of your vocal line! Thanks for sharing the result of your test, Kevin!
That was informative Pat and thanks Kevin for giving it a go! I'll have to try it. I only have Melodyne Essentials not Editor.
Josie
I'm assuming all versions offer the ability to save as MIDI... if all do, I'd bet the MIDI export works the same in both versions. And since I didn't really have to tweak the audio in Melodyne before saving as MIDI, the other differences shouldn't matter.
You can quickly see if your version supports saving as MIDI by using the SAVE AS command, and see what options are available. Hopefully one of them will be MIDI.
Keep us posted Josie! I'm curious to hear what you come up with!
there are different ways to make generic vocal sounds, and I suspect they would all yield slightly different velocity results, because some would be more percussive.
For example, singing BA_BA_BAAAA would introduce an increased velocity at the start of the note... which probably would not be suitable for a cello, but might work fine for a mallet instrument or piano.
Different ways to hum include
MMMMmmmmmm NNNnnnnnnn Ahhhhhhh Ooooooooo
and you could introduce a consonant when you want more velocity
Thoughts to consider for anybody who spends time playing with this
Hey, all -- Developer here, swooping in to make the conversation awkward.
I just put out a greatly-improved version of my software which is much more accurate and pushes the note onset latency way down. It's the first version which is able to pick up on quick staccatos in the mid-to-low end. The main disadvantage of 0.7.0 is that it sometimes creates brief (< .05 second) notes an octave above or below what you're singing. The fast tracking also means every pitch deviation in your voice is going to come through -- meaning a combination of scale locking and practice is usually necessary to be nailing each note.
Have a listen to this unedited audio recording from an unplanned five-piece jam at NAMM. Chaotic, but a heck of a lot of fun and you can see the software beginning to approach a point where a sense of proficiency can be attained. (Drums are not controlled by imitone.)
Passing audio through a pitch corrector prior to imitone is not especially helpful as imitone performs corrections internally -- though it's true that a high latency pitch corrector such as AutoTune realtime might give you more "stable" results, it would also reduce the responsiveness of my system to the point where you lose the sense of playing the instrument. I plan on implementing this high-latency behavior myself as a "composer mode".
Regarding the comments about velocity I'll speak to my disadvantage here and say that currently imitone transmits no velocity information. So far I've been specializing it for "continuous" instruments with CC11 (expression) and CC1 (modwheel vibrato) articulations, so it feels a lot better when used with EG. strings / brass / woodwinds. I plan on adding a velocity mode this month which should get EG. guitars / pianos / timpani feeling good.
If you guys would like to nominate someone from the forums to try the latest software and report back with their thoughts, I'm happy to provide a free copy. It's not finished, so it won't be perfect, but it's crossing a threshold that I'm very excited about.
I can be contacted at [my first name] @ imitone.com
I am really intrigued by the possibilities. It's a wonderful idea and looks and sounds like so much fun too. Thank you for coming on the forum and being so forthcoming. Loved the Namm jam audio.
I'm tempted to nominate myself because I'd really love to try it. I don't want to come off selfish though, so I nominate Kevin.
Ha, ha I am doing FAWM this year (writing/record 14 songs in February) so I am not sure I can adequately do it justice. One question: can you just feed it a vocal wav file? or does it have to be live?
If no one else steps up, I will definitely give it a try at least on a few tunes and report back. I'll like the thought of adding cello or trumpet on some tunes. Maybe I'll even try a string quartet type of thing.
I have a Vista 32-bit PC and a windows 7 64-bit laptop. I use sonar 8.5.3 (32-bit) and BIAB. I have sonar x1 producer, but I never got around to using it too much (I was always trying to just get something done).
Hey how about a thank you for the nomination KEVIN! LOL!
Seriously, try a flute too please.
Josie
Ha, ha -- Oh yes, Thank you, thank you. I have already written two songs for FAWM today (including a one-hour song skirmish) so I am getting burned out and I forgot my manners!! Now I have to go off to two (!) super bowl parties. I don't want to be sociable (away from the fawm forums) during February!
bump on this thread- Has anyone used Imitone with success in RealBand? I have been trying to use it with Garritan instruments and not getting far. Imitone is recognised as a midi input device but does not seem to work with Garritan and record much of anything.
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