PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Rendering Process-Wav Files Wont Burn To CD-R

Shannon -

If you have a DVD burner, you can use your DVD's to make a data backup of specific files, but you can't use DVD's to create an audio CD that, for example, plays in your car CD player or on a boombox.

I'm still not clear exactly what you are trying to accomplish.

What I'm getting from your comments, though, is that you don't fully understand the technology for making CD's or DVD's. If that's case (and no need to be embarrassed about it, lots of folks don't), let me know and we can walk through it.

Shannon, I use Sonar and it gives all this data up front while BiaB does not, at least to my knowledge. So here is what I would do:
1-in BiaB click on file/export song as audio/export as 'songtitle'.wav where 'songtitle' is the title of your song
2-save song
3-right click on the saved song
4-click on properties/details
It should read Bit rate : 141 1kbps

Note that I am using Win 7 Pro but the procedure should be the same for XP, Win 8 and Win 8.1.

Note I am not sure as I don't save songs in BiaB but I think BiaB will only save songs in 141 1kbps x 16 bit so you are probably OK with that part.

NOTE - if you want feel free to PM me so I can send you my email. Then you can email the song to me and I'll take a look at it and I will try to burn it. That way you will know if your burner is bad or not. If I can't burn it then the wav may be corrupted. Have you tried to save either another song or this one again to see if it can be burned?

John-Thank you!

Correct, I dont understand the rending the audio file dialog box method. Just so you and I are on the same page here, on the main biab screen, you have all these icons that you can click on, to then open up to dialog boxes. One icon says "wav" and its probably next to your "save as" icon. The 2nd icon has a cd with a checkmark on it and that is the "render to audio file". The "wav" icon and the "render to audio file" are the 2 rendering methods I am talking about. Before today, I was using the "wav" rendering method. Today going forward, Im am using the "cd/checkmark" icon-"render to audio file" dialog box method. I am a little concerned, but willing to give this method a try. Because I have watch the biab video on rendering (the latter part of the video) and read the written biab instructions as well, they are saying different things. I am concerned b/c I dont want to waste anymore blank cd-rs that I have (besides ive spent days on trying to figure this out-LOL!). So, yes i would love some help (as you mentioned) in walking me through this!

Shannon

Hi Mario-Have the bit rate info.

It is 1411kbps. So, what do ya think?

Shannon

It's ok, that is what it should be.

Just tried to "batch" of all the songs from the "render of audio file" dialog box and this came up i.e. "an unknown device error has occurred (1051) extended error data-KEY: 5 ASC:21 ASCQ: 2"

Would this help of I burn something from itunes to see if my burner works?

Shannon

YEEEEEEES...SUCCESS...IT WORKED, that is, my little experiment!

I decided to try to burn a few non-biab song off itunes and burn them. The 1st try didnt work, as I had used the new batch of memorex cd-rs. 2nd try: I used sony cd-rs that Ive had for awhile and it worked. So, I know my burner works!

So now, Im going to see if the biab "batch" of songs with the sony cd-rs work or not. The memorex cd-r are going back to office max!




Shannon

Hi Everyone and specifically Mario- Ok, I tried to burn with the "batch" of songs I had inside biab. I must of had 60 songs. It said it was a success, but when I went to play the biab songs of my stereo, all I got was a click track! LOL! Back to the drawing board. Again, at least I know my burner is working.

10 minutes later, I tried to burn with my burner with the sony cd-rs that ive had and this came up "the 'songtitle' wav file cannot be used. wrong file format. wav files must be 44k 16 bit stereo.

Mario regarding the bit rate error in the paragraph above?

Shannon

I'm a bit confused about the value of 1411kbps (?)

The standard recording format of an audio CD is a two-channel 16-bit PCM (Pulse Coded Modulation) encoding at a sample rate of 44.1 kHz per channel.

In Video Production, audio recording is often recorded at 48KHz. But for Audio CD's, 44.1KHz is the virtually always used. This is the format for Compact Disc Audio recording that was jointly developed by Philips and Sony, and has been essentially the industry standard since about 1980.

If you have the capability to record at a different bit rate than 44.1KHz, no audio CD player is likely to be able to successfully read the disk.

Does this help clarify?

Best

Trevor

Sorry Trevor, its over my head. Mario just asked about the bit rate and I gave the info to him. I can go, look and see. However I looked on the "render to audio file" and where it shows you the burn rate. Is that the same thing? I dont know. The highest the burn rate goes is 24x. I dont know if burn rate and bit rate are the same. FYI-Please dont get too technical on me though (lol), as tech things zing right over my head!

Hi Trevor,

I looked at several of my biab songs that I want to burn and 4 out of 5 songs that I checked were 141 1kpbs. The one that didnt had 705. Hope that helps.

I feel like I am closer to the solution. I think the answer is in the "render song to audio file (cd with a checkmark icon)". Anyone has further ideas within that realm???



Shannon

Hi Shannon
Sorry to confuse you. No, the burn speed is something completely different.

Think of the bit rate as the 'clarity' of the sound - how many individual tiny samples are stored each 1 second to make up a specific sound.

Take one second's worth of music, break it up into tiny segments to store it. Obviously, the more tiny samples that can be stored, the better (more realistic) the result when it is read and reconstructed back into sound.

The burn rate is just how fast it takes for the CD burner to create the CD, i.e. to copy the samples onto the disk. It could take 5 minutes to actually copy the file to disk, or 20 minutes to copy the file to disk. Nevertheless, the result is the same file that is stored on the disk. The only difference is that one copy process is slower than the other.

Did I go easy on you (smile, I hope)

Sometimes, it's a good idea to set the burn speed at something less than the maximum it can operate at.

Once the burn process starts, it essentially cannot be interrupted, even if the data isn't able to be supplied to the burner in time.

If the burner is trying to write data faster than the data can be delivered to the burner, you get a buffer under-run condition, and the burn process fails. Chuck the CD in the bin and start again.

Try setting your burn speed to something less than maximum (perhaps 3/4 of maximum). This can definitely improve reliability of your CD creation process.

Hope this tip assists.

Best

Trevor

Trevor and Shannon this is from Yahoo answers:


Why are all .WAV music files 1411kbps?
Was told .WAV is better than Apple Lossless, which is what I use to use, but in burning songs to my computer in .WAV file format they are all exactly 1411kbps is that normal and is ...show more
Best Answer

Simon answered 4 years ago

Wav is the industry standard for uncompressed lossless audio. Yes 1,411kbps is the raw bit rate for a audio CD. All audio CDs that you will burn will come out as 1411kbps music files. A Wav file will fluctuate in size depending on the source material you are encoding. For example, (without getting into to much detail) an audio CD like what you buy in the stores, all have a maximum resolution of 16-bit 44,100HZ. Doing the math, when that is encoded into Wav it will give you a bit rate of 1,411kbps.

Shannon you have a PM.

Also how old is your burner? Maybe it needs to be cleaned?
You might try one of these CD lens cleaner discs:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=cd+lens+cleaner+disc

Bestbuy and other stores also sell them.

FWIW:

(sample rate) * (bit depth) * (number of channels) = kbits per second

For example, 44 100 Hz, 16 bit stereo equates to (44 100 * 16 * 2) = 1411 kbps.

-Ron

Edit - Shannon I'll betcha that 705 Kbps file you mentioned was monophonic (ie. one channel.)

Shannon -

I'm not at my home computer, so I can't do screen shots (I can do that this evening, if necessary). I am assuming that you want to create an audio CD that you can play in your stereo CD player. Please let me know if that is an incorrect assumption.

You mentioned trying to burn 60 CD's. Unless your songs are about 1 minute each, there's no way you are going to get 60 songs on one CD.

Let's go back to the basics.

A CD-R (which stands for Compact Disc-Recordable) generally comes in two different sizes: either 650 MB (which represents 74 minutes of standard audio) or 700 MB (which represents 80 minutes of standard audio).

Standard audio is a WAV file. WAV files use about 10 MB of space per minute of audio. So with (on average) 3 1/2 minute songs, you can get about 20 or 21 songs max on an audio CD.

Audio CDs (like you buy in the store of your favorite artists) are laid out differently from data CDs. Audio CDs are designed to be played back using an audio CD player (which could be your computer, or a stereo audio CD deck or your car player). Just copying WAV files to a blank CD (essentially creating a DATA CD) is not the same thing as creating an audio CD. Most CD burning programs allow you to do both. The DATA CD will not play in your audio CD player***.

You asked about why you need a dedicated CD burning program. It's because what's built into Windows, or the Mini-Burn in BIAB are just very basic programs without many features.

My recommendation is to use BIAB to render your songs to WAV. Doing that, once a file is finished, you are allowed the opportunity to preview it (by default, I believe it brings up Windows Media Player), so you can hear if it rendered properly or if all you get are clicks. Repeat for each song, making note of where the file is saved (by default in the same folder location as the BIAB song).

Once you have the WAV files saved, then open your CD burning application (CDBurnerXP is free and it will create audio CDs). I use Nero on my computer, but you have to pay for it. Most CD burning apps allow you to create an audio compilation and just drag the WAV files into the compilation. They will let you know when you have exceeded the capacity of the blank CD.

For audio CDs, you also want to make sure you select the option to "close" or "finalize" the CD. If you don't, you'll find it won't play properly on any device other than the one you created it on.

I don't know if this helped; let us know. I can provide more information this evening (with screen shots), if necessary.

*** unless it's, for example, your car's dual system player that can play both audio CD's and MP3/WMA/WAV data CDs.

Thanks for the clarification Mario! Same thing, just stated in a different way I guess

Yes.....Success.....Problem solved!!!!!!!

Initially, I rendered my songs by going to file>export song as wav and mp3, both. After this point, I was trying to get my rendered songs over to itunes and create a playlist and burn them from Itunes. I had bought a 100 pak of cd-rs for this occasion, but after a few days, I figured out it was my new cd-rs that were faulty (at least one of the reasons I was having problems). Also, I had figured out that my burning program from my computer was working properly. Another success. Meanwhile, I had tried to render through the "render to audio file" method and burn cd-rs from my burning program in my computer after I rendered. After trying to run the "batch" button from inside the "render song from audio file" dialog box, biab was still giving me fits. So, the first thing this morning, my intuition said to go back and render from file>export song to wav and save it. Then right click on the rendered song and go to "open to" and hit itunes. Create a playlist and burn the rendered songs and it FINALLY WORKED!!!

Initially (a couple days ago), when I was trying to render the songs with mp3s, go to itunes and burn, but the burn kept canceling. I know now to save with wav only instead of mp3s. Also I also had a bad batch of cd-rs.

Thank you so much all your help, so much appreciate it!

Shannon

I hear you. I've always called it 44.1 kHz also. I had to look it up initially as I had never heard of the other.