|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,858
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,858 |
So..... since we're talking about SUBs..... (albeit a different kind in another thread) ... I thought a discussion on SPEAKERs.... SUB speakers would be in order here.
Who uses subs in their studios or in live performances?
Feel free to discuss the details.
I decided that I wanted... or needed a sub in my studio since I was mixing with a pair of Mackie MR5 reference monitors. And if you can't hear "it" you certainly can not mix it properly. Or so the saying goes.
After all, 5" cones can only move a very limited volume of air. So I searched and found a good deal on a Polk Audio 10" 100w home stereo sub speaker and ordered it. It's fed from a spare output on my 8 output Saffire interface. It took a bit of time playing with it to achieve what I felt was a good balance for it between the lows it provides and the MR5's. I think it's running set similarly to the MR5's.....about half way up. And the crossover is tweeked a bit for where it begins to work.
From day one, this sub has been like ear candy, allowing me to hear the full bottom end on my mixes. When the kick drum hits and the thud from the toms hit, you can feel it....same with the bass guitar and synths are simply awesome to behold with a sub. And when the bass and kick are in the groove, what a wonderful thing of sub-awesome beauty. Like the words to a song by Boston.... It's more than a feeling....
I do shut it off from time to time as I work on the mix to be sure I'm still in the proper range in the mix on the low end.
I think I found this one on sale for under $200 at the time..... it was quite some time back so I don't recall the exact purchase price.... but it was the lowest price I saw anywhere else on subs in the same size and power range.
Personally, I don't think it matters much that the sub was designed for home stereo/ theater system use vs studio.
So... do you sub or not?
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 02/22/15 03:31 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732 |
Hey Herb, I remembered a discussion on this from last summer: July 2014 Post I agree with your comment on smaller monitor cones needing the sub more. I also use that Mike Senior book for a studio reference book. In my case I use some JBL LSR4328s. I believe the 8" speakers provide enough low end to not need a sub. If I needed to mix a style of music that uses a lot more low end, then maybe yes, I would need a sub.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,602
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,602 |
I do have a couple 'sub' systems. One M-Audio and one Blue Sky.
I like them, but not as much as the 8" speakers.
I'll use the subs when I feel the need though.
As Mac says - run what ya brung.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 123
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 123 |
I have never used them to mix with, although I used to have a set of computer speakers (aimed mainly at gamers) that I wish I still had- the sub in that system made the sound phenomenal! I am thinking of getting one for live performance to supplement my Yamaha Stagepas 300 PA. It has no bottom end to speak of but is otherwise holding up pretty well and I don't want to part with it just yet. I mounted both speakers on a single stand using a dual pole mount- so it would work just as well if I had a sub with a pole mount on top. The goal is to travel small and have a small footprint- ultimately I'd love to have one of those Bose Linear Array systems but right now they are out of my price range. The last band I was in used a pair of Mackie 18's- one on either side of the stage. Those things were monsters! I'm thinking a 15 or even a 12 would suffice for me. There are a couple on eBay that I keep on my watch list (while I check the local stores for used gear- they sometimes get used 18's but those are just too big for me) Rockville Seismic These aren't what I'd call name-brand gear but I think they'd work for me- anybody have any experience with either brand?
BiaB 2024
Reaper v7.15
Melodyne Essential 5.3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,133
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,133 |
My small KRK's do what they are designed for, i.e., present a self powered flat unadulterated soundstage. For me if my mix sounds "good" on them at a fairly low volume it will also sound good on my larger system (Yamaha integrated amp, Polk Audio towers and Yamaha 10" sub). Works for me, perhaps not for everybody.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
18" Powered Sub........Boom Boom.  
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732 |
18" Powered Sub........Boom Boom. In my Smart Car...
Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,921
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,921 |
18" Powered Sub........Boom Boom. In my Smart Car... HA! Is there room for anything else? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,566
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,566 |
Sub in my PA? No.
Car? Lord, no.
Sub in the main studio (otherwise known as the larger bedroom) with 8" monitors, no.
Sub in the small mixing room with 6" Mackie monitors, yes, an Adam sub turned up only about 1/3 for presence.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
Sub in my PA? No.
Car? Lord, no.
Sub in the main studio (otherwise known as the larger bedroom) with 8" monitors, no.
Sub in the small mixing room with 6" Mackie monitors, yes, an Adam sub turned up only about 1/3 for presence.
I usually just crank that 18 up untill it breaks a glass on the bar, then back it off a bit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,722
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,722 |
Sub in my PA? No.
Car? Lord, no.
Sub in the main studio (otherwise known as the larger bedroom) with 8" monitors, no.
Sub in the small mixing room with 6" Mackie monitors, yes, an Adam sub turned up only about 1/3 for presence.
I usually just crank that 18 up untill it breaks a glass on the bar, then back it off a bit. Now that is not only one hell of a sound check, but that's funny I don't care who you are. LMAO! Later,
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
Sub in my PA? No.
Car? Lord, no.
Sub in the main studio (otherwise known as the larger bedroom) with 8" monitors, no.
Sub in the small mixing room with 6" Mackie monitors, yes, an Adam sub turned up only about 1/3 for presence.
I usually just crank that 18 up untill it breaks a glass on the bar, then back it off a bit. Now that is not only one hell of a sound check, but that's funny I don't care who you are. LMAO! Later, The glass technique doesn't always work. We played in an aircraft hangar last weekend, and our 18" sub just disappeared in the massive space. I had to resort to the pain-inducing mic feedback technique.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926 |
I work with synths a lot, and listen to music with suboctave content. My left and right monitors have a hard cutoff at 50 Hz; there is a characteristic/clichéd descending tone used in EDM (electronic dance music) that just disappears below that, so I must have a sub to listen and mix with. My phones go down to 5 Hz, but it just isn't the same. I got a 10" JBL powered unit pushing 100-150W of power. I can't even begin to crank it up as the windows in my tiny music room start rattling early on. That's okay--keeps my lease intact!
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,858
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,858 |
I work with synths a lot, and listen to music with suboctave content. My left and right monitors have a hard cutoff at 50 Hz; there is a characteristic/clichéd descending tone used in EDM (electronic dance music) that just disappears below that, so I must have a sub to listen and mix with. My phones go down to 5 Hz, but it just isn't the same. I got a 10" JBL powered unit pushing 100-150W of power. I can't even begin to crank it up as the windows in my tiny music room start rattling early on. That's okay--keeps my lease intact! Yup... I don't care how good the studio reference speakers are.... there are sometimes only a sub will get the job done.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,133
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,133 |
And then there is the variable of the type of music you are mixing. For me, I don't want anything in the mix that I need a sub to hear.
In coming!!
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,858
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,858 |
And then there is the variable of the type of music you are mixing. For me, I don't want anything in the mix that I need a sub to hear.
Mandolins and acoustic guitars don't need a sub.... you're right.... but even BG can be enhanced with the right speakers/sub.... I'll wager live BG shows have subs these days.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,093
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,093 |
I usually just crank that 18 up untill it breaks a glass on the bar, then back it off a bit. very considerate 90dB ( Altough you probably need a little more than 90dB )
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697 |
I got lucky and picked up a great pair of used Altec Model 14's a few years ago.
These were the last of the Altec studio monitor series before the "real" Altec Lansing went under. Mine are the home version with nice wood veneer as opposed to the battleship grey painted studio ones. I'll mix in the bedroom on my RSL 8" and then take it to the living room to listen on the Altecs. Definitely no sub needed. The small studio monitors we all talk about are nice and all but you really need a pair of old school serious studio monitors to really tell what you've got.
Back in the day when I was doing session work they would have a big system like my Altec's or a big pair of JBL 15" with the baby cheeks, smaller home type stereo speakers like Pioneers or KLH or similar and a small car radio setup.
For the first time in years I did a thing at a studio in N Hollywood last October and it was like nothing's changed. They had a big pair of UREI's hanging from the ceiling in the control room with a set of computer speakers on the console. UREI used to have Altec drivers I don't know what they have now. You need at least a pair of 12's being powered by about 1000W even if the volume is not that loud, to really hear what you've got. The engineer used to work for Ray Charles and I asked him about subs and he said unless you're doing the modern rap EDM super low stuff he never uses them. That's a different world from what we're talking about here.
Anyway, bottom line imho if you're really trying to mix something that's pro guality at home you need a proper space with good acoustic treatment and the proper equipment including serious monitor speakers. You can only do so much with 5 or 8" monitors and unless you have really, really good ears, trying to balance a sub can throw off your mix.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,858
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,858 |
You need at least a pair of 12's being powered by about 1000W even if the volume is not that loud, to really hear what you've got. Interesting that you say that because there's a lot of truth to that. Unfortunately, for most people, having such a set up is totally out of the question. Cost alone to get the flat response cabinet, speakers that can handle the task at hand, and the amp that can deliver the power needed to control...tightly control the cones, is out of the average home enthusiast's budget. Likely the cost for the speaker monitoring system would easily exceed by several times, the investment many folks have in their entire home studio setup. So they are left with what they can afford.... which falls back to the small cone reflex speakers......and a sub. But it's nice to dream.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
Whether you're exploring new features, checking out the latest RealTracks or Style PAKs, this is your go-to guide for Band-in-a-Box® 2026.
Check out this forum post for "One Stop Shopping" of our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Videos!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 100 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until May 15, 2026. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49.
Holiday Weekend Hours
As we hop into the Easter weekend, here are our holiday hours:
April 3 (Good Friday): 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM PDT
April 4 (Saturday): Closed
April 5 (Easter Sunday): Closed
April 6 (Easter Monday): Open regular hours
Wishing you an egg-cellent weekend!
— Team PG
Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
If you're already using RealBand 2026 for Windows, download build 10 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® users: Build 1237 is now available!
Already a Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows user? Stay up to date and download the build 1237 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,192
Posts801,808
Members40,064
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean