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A long time ago people here were talking about a really simple rhythm.
A chord being played on the AND of the 2nd beat in a four beats to the bar measure.
Strangely, BIAB couldn't do it. Oh there were workarounds to be sure, but they took a long time and the net result was not quite right.
Can BIAB2015 now play on the AND of the 2nd beat?
TIA
BIABguy
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Go to the C7 icon in the toolbars. You can anticipate the 3rd beat by a sixteenth or an eighth. This feature has been around for a long while. Ray
Last edited by raymb1; 03/24/15 05:57 PM.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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BIAB has been able to do this for decades, as Ray suggested. Look in the Help under Pushes, Shots and Holds. You can use Chord Settings, or type one or two ^ in front of the chord name.
Perhaps what you are asking is, can BIAB now do a chord on the and of two, and another chord right on beat three. No - that requires a workaround.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Here is an example of using pushes to put a chord on the AND. This is part of a thread over in the Off Topic right now. And of course Matt is spot on with what the real issue is.  The Lick Lives
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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BIAB has been able to do this for decades, as Ray suggested. Look in the Help under Pushes, Shots and Holds. You can use Chord Settings, or type one or two ^ in front of the chord name.
Perhaps what you are asking is, can BIAB now do a chord on the and of two, and another chord right on beat three. No - that requires a workaround. I fired off my post in haste last night and didn't refine my question. Yes Matt, I am talking about a chord on the AND of two and obviously being able to have another chord on the 3rd beat and perhaps the 4th beat as well. So no cheating with the 3rd beat!!! You mean BIAB still can't do this after all these decades without resorting to user-based clunky workarounds?
BIABguy
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BIAB still cannot do this, correct, but there have been improvements in the ability to do a workaround. For example, the ability to choose a double-time RealTrack setting makes it easier to adjust tempos to expand the song, doubling the amount of positions for chords.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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You might want to check out this site. Notes may have some styles that will do what you want. http://www.nortonmusic.com/
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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BIAB still cannot do this, correct,
What a shame! Perhaps the greatest irony though, is that when BIAB generates its keyboard rhythm part, guess where many syncopations fall? That's right, on the AND of the 2nd beat !!!!!!!!!!!!
but there have been improvements in the ability to do a workaround. For example, the ability to choose a double-time RealTrack setting makes it easier to adjust tempos to expand the song, doubling the amount of positions for chords.
Well I just dug up one of the workarounds I did not too long ago (double-time etc.) and you know what? It's not even close. It's a 16th feel (late), instead of an 8th/swing 8th.
BIABguy
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The AND of 2 is not in question, the ability to have a note on 3 is. Please check out Notes Norton's site. He has styles that will place 8th notes in a bar instead of BIAB's 4 quarter notes.
Last edited by raymb1; 03/25/15 10:25 AM.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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The AND of 2 is not in question, the ability to have a note on 3 is. Not quite. The question (after I refined my first post) is about the ability to have BOTH: -a chord on AND of 2 and -a chord on 3
Please check out Notes Norton's site. He has styles that will place 8th notes in a bar instead of BIAB's 4 quarter notes.
As far as NN's site is concerned. I do respect third parties who have businesses that prey on BIAB weaknesses. For me, the need isn't great enough (I am not a big BIAB user) to warrant seeking out these businesses and their 'fixes'.
BIABguy
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The AND of 2 is not in question, the ability to have a note on 3 is. Please check out Notes Norton's site. He has styles that will place 8th notes in a bar instead of BIAB's 4 quarter notes. I think for about 30 - 40 bucks you can buy the whole expanded megapak which is every expanded style. I almost pulled the trigger a while back with a project which needed this but something must of happened. Seems like it would be a good investment.
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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As far as NN's site is concerned. I do respect third parties who have businesses that prey on BIAB weaknesses.
For me, the need isn't great enough (I am not a big BIAB user)
to warrant seeking out these businesses and their 'fixes'.
I find these comments somewhat interesting. Your forum name is BIABguy as though you support the product, and then you talk about "weaknesses that are preyed upon by 3rd parties". Wow. Then you state: "the need isn't great enough (I am not a big BIAB user) to warrant seeking out these businesses and their 'fixes'." Did you answer your own question? You don't seem to actually desperately need a way to resolve your question in the first place? It's clearly not that important after all? Lots of people went to lots of trouble to try to explain and assist, but anything offered that was a bit complex was too hard? Sorry if I am confused. Trevor
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Hi Trevor, Thanks for your reply!
I find these comments somewhat interesting. Your forum name is BIABguy as though you support the product, and then you talk about "weaknesses that are preyed upon by 3rd parties".
Wow. Yes I do support the product, as I have been buying BIAB for more than 20 years! Think Atari. However I am not head over heels in love with the product, despite its many benefits. A 'feature' such as having the ability to have a chord typed and played on the AND beat of 2, while retaining the ability to have a regular chord on the 3rd beat, to my mind is not too much to ask for from PG Music. This would not require complicated programming skills to implement, and quite frankly I am very surprised that it still isn't hard coded in BIAB2015.
Then you state: [quote]"the need isn't great enough (I am not a big BIAB user) to warrant seeking out these businesses and their 'fixes'."
Did you answer your own question? You don't seem to actually desperately need a way to resolve your question in the first place? It's clearly not that important after all? Correct, while I was hoping for an answer that said, "Sure here is how you accomplish that, go to this BIAB menu and select..etc." I don't use BIAB often enough to really need this feature.
Lots of people went to lots of trouble to try to explain and assist, but anything offered that was a bit complex was too hard?
I always appreciate the help I receive here, even if it doesn't resolve the problem I am having. 
BIABguy
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Sorry, but I must come back to this thread.
I was prepared to make a concession.
This is with RealTrack audio, strictly.
x = 1/4 rest
, = end of main beat
. = 1/8 rest
Rather than have a rhythm of the following:
/Bb13, . Ab13 G13 x /
I was prepared to have:
/Bb13 x G13 x /
So I keyed it in and re-generated.
So what does BIAB come up with?
The following:
/Bb13, x x G13 /
Bb13 of 2/8's followed by G13 of 1/8
That is two 8ths on beat one,
and one 8th on beat 4 !!!!!!!!
Not what I had keyed in.
BIAB now playing 8th notes on the AND very easily.
But why play a chord on beat 4 when I keyed it to play on beat 3?
Last edited by BIABguy; 03/26/15 02:00 PM.
BIABguy
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RealTracks is audio, not midi. When you use the carat "^" symbol to program a eight or sixteenth note push, Band-in-a-Box or RealBand knows to quit using the RealTrack and go to a folder containing special (push, hold or rest) chords. Several RealTracks and their variations may share one special chords folder so there may be a limited selection and the selection may not exactly match. At least in RealBand you can highlight the progression then regenerate or multiriff to get more choices to select from.
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"Mama always said BIAB was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get."
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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As mentioned, I invented EXPANDED styles to get around the problem. Each EXPANDED style is written so that each cell in the BiaB matrix is a half measure instead of a whole measure. What used to be a beat in the cell is now a half beat (eighth note). This allows you to put 8 different chords in a 4/4 measure, one on each eighth note or eighth rest. If you split the measure between two cells and double the tempo, the EXPANDED styles sound correct. I've done over 30 fake disks, and there are many hundreds of songs that can only be entered correctly using an EXPANDED Style. As a bonus, it boosts the BiaB resolution from 120ppq to 240ppq. You can hear a number of EXPANDED styles here http://www.nortonmusic.com/styledemo.htmlInsights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Here it is, if I was concerned about this limitation at this time, then this would be a no brainer. Every Expanded Style for less than $35. But I need to ask, this is for midi, right? I don't think RT's will follow the rules well, or will they??
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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There are certain things that are done with MIDI that are absolutely impossible to do with Real Tracks. Each tool has it's place and if you use either one or the other exclusively you are cheating yourself. Ignoring MIDI is like trying to eat soup with a fork because you only want to use one tool. Example: I put this challenge up a couple of years ago, and still have no takers. Check out the Demo song on the right hand side of this page http://www.nortonmusic.com/fake32.html (it's the linked song). I dare anyone to come close to it with a Real Track. MIDI is extremely editable, audio is not. Excerpted from Keyboard magazine, March 2014 by Craig Anderton:
…Today you can easily record 100 tracks of digital audio on a basic laptop, so MIDI may seem irrelevant in the studio. Yet MIDI remains not only viable, but valuable, because it lets you exploit today's studio in ways that digital audio still can't.
…
Deep editing. Digital audio allows for broad edits, like changing levels or moving sections around, and editing tools such as Melodyne are doing ever more fine-grained audio surgery. But MIDI is more fine grained still: You can edit every characteristic of every performance gesture: dynamics, volume, timing, the length and pitch of every note, pitch-bend, and even which sound is being played. MIDI data can tell a piano sound what to play, or if you change your mind, a Clavinet patch. With digital audio, changing the instrument that plays a given part requires re-recording the track….but MIDI can do much more…---------------and------------------- Excerpt from Electronic Musician (EM) February 2013 by Craig Anderton:
…Thirty years ago, at the 1983 Winter NAMM show, a Sequential Circuits Prophet-600 talked to a Roland JX-3P and MIDI went mainstream. Since then, MIDI has become embedded in the DNA of virtually every pop music production (yes I stole that line from Alan Parsons, but I don't think he'll mind)…------------------------------------- So don't discount MIDI - use MIDI when it's the best tool for the job and use RTs when they are the best tool for the job. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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So I guess the answer is. No.
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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