Originally Posted By: floyd jane
Originally Posted By: jazzmandan
FJ, you seem to have identified some magic crafting of lyrics and music which is on par with what many professionals do. I can't put my finger on exactly what it is since I just don't know enough about song writing to explain what I am hearing in your songs. But I do hear it.

Maybe it in the vocal phrasing? A changing in tempo of the vocal versus the tempo of the backing? Or is it that you are singing more against the chord than with it (I mean that in a positive way)? You now - the chord raise and you descend. It has to be more than just the cleaver lyric, which is certainly a part of it. Folks refer to your songs as "well crafted"? But, I don't know exactly what that means. Perhaps some day you can educate us on your secret.


Since Charlie jumped in to define his mention of "well-crafted" (and did a nice job of covering that - and, Charlie, I appreciate the nice compliments....) I thought I'd try to give some kind of answer before continuing on... though I'm sure it will be inadequate.....

There is a "craft" to songwriting - at least the kind that I do... mostly it is "learned" and it takes a lot of practice to become proficient - much like learning to play an instrument. There are those who have some kind of innate talent, but for the majority it is a "skill" (not a "gift"). Generally, what is being referred to in "well-crafted" comments is mostly about a lyric. How words go together, how they fit with the music, how they conjure images and feeling - the main intent of a song... As Charlie said, there are a number of aspects to that (too many to cover in a short reply).. The "clever" is part of it - though that is best if it isn't "too clever". Finding interesting way to say the same thing that has been said a million times. The rhymes you use, the way you use them, the structure in which they fit.... Noel is very good at detailing these type things in a lyric...

There are so many aspects. Most are quite simple. But you have to realize them. Many songwriters never work the craft enough (meaning write enough) to find them all... for instance - a very simple one... how a song/story develops and leads back to the "hook" (or chorus)... How that happens in your 2nd verse should be on a new level compared to the first verse. The inexperienced writer will simple write verse 2 to say the same thing that verse 1 said - a rehash - and that will cause your listener to lose interest... just one example...

You have to find all of those things somewhere - lessons, realizations - and you have to practice. A lot. And you have to have real legitimate feedback to learn what works and what doesn't. To progress you have to be doing it ALL the time. Not write a couple of songs a year.

You have dedicated yourself to becoming a better guitar player. The same thing applies to writing. It ain't a sometimes thing.

OK... but... the things that you have noticed are another aspect... when you talk about the vocal phrasing and tempo and singing against the chord, you are delving into melody - and "how a song SINGS". A whole 'nother thing... and one that some writers never consider. It's the part that makes a song "commercial" (for lack of a better word). A large majority of "writers" don't seem to ever think about it - or certainly do not develop it. It (melody) is almost an afterthought. Play some chords and fit the lyric to them the best you can - the lyric pretty much just follows the chords as they are played... it pretty much defines "folk music". And country music before 1980. And bluegrass. And a lot of blues. (not to say there's anything wrong with that) Writing catchy melodies and having the lyric fit them "just right" is a different thing. It is a conscious effort/decision on the writer's part. And only a certain percentage of writers go that direction. The ones who don't will often mock songs (and the people who write and perform them) that are "commercial" - like it's a bad thing. (there are SO many different discussions in all of this). I'm rambling, I know...

It's all about how a song "falls on the ear". Prosody. It's got to be natural... conversational... no "bumps". The skill of writing comes from being able to do that all the time - because you've learned how... how to do it right. How to say it "the right way". Nothing awkward. Nothing boring or cliché. Musical. Like a REAL guitar player. Carlos Santana. Jeff Beck. They make a guitar SING. The guy who is just learning the pentatonic scale sounds like he's PLAYING THE PENTATONIC SCALE...you have to get to a point where that is so much a part of you that you don't even think about it - so that your playing is "lyrical" - same thing applies to songwriting. When you have learned the craft inside out, your songs SING. If you haven't your songs fall on the chords because "they are there"...

OH! btw... THANKS for dropping by for a listen. I recall when you used to come around these parts on a regular basis. When I first started here (on the forum) you made me feel welcomed... so thanks for that, too...
THIS SHOULD BE REQUIRED READING FOR EVERY SONGWRITER ON THIS FORUM! Thanks for sharing your insights in such a thoughtful and concise manner. Tom