|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,810
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,810 |
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,333
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,333 |
Holy sheet..... I've got no dog in this fight and my live band days were a long time ago from 1974 through 1980. No problems gigging Tuesday-Sunday at clubs with (2) casuals frequently on Sat/Sun. We were mostly an all original band but about 10% were a few select covers. (IE Steely Dan, Little River Band, etc.) To think it's come to this for small gigging bands and club owners in small venues is astonishing. IMO...bands doing covers in a club scene (who are not getting rich I might add) should be a non-issue and be looked upon as free advertizing for the original writers/bands....nothing more. Yes...for the record...I'd feel the same if it were my songs being done by other bands. I'd guess the one's that feel they need to be compensated in some fashion (in this context) also played some covers to get started on their music path also....the irony. BMI wants to collect a 'licensing fee'! Ha...if I were club owner on the receiving end of any of this I'd offer them a blunt hand gesture and hold them accountable for putting small venue clubs/hard working bands out of work. But, that's just me and the music world turns much differently these days...to my dismay. Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 04/08/15 07:02 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 330
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 330 |
Record, CD, or other media sales are nose diving for everyone, so the music mafia, (read big producers and record companies) are fighting back and will use every means possible to scrape every last penny out of a rapidly emptying pot.
Stupid to be penalising small clubs and businesses who inevitably will stop live music and just pay the minimal license fee for a juke box or pre recorded background noise.
Thankfully the UK isn't as badly hit with this nonsense as yet, but no doubt it will come over here eventually.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,810
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,810 |
Yeah... close to 30 years ago, in a house band gig, the owner of the club came to us and asked for our set lists as far back as we had them.
Seems ASCAP came a knocking. They cataloged the songs on his jukebox and when they saw the band gear on the stage, they wanted our set lists.
He never did tell us what that visit cost him but he was clearly not happy about it so we didn't push him to find out.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,610
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,610 |
I played a couple of gigs last month where I had to play only "public domain" songs. I still played whatever song I wanted, just didn't play the copyrighted melodies. BMI and ASCAP must make billions.............Ray
Last edited by raymb1; 04/08/15 05:53 PM.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,073
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,073 |
I played a couple of gigs last month where I had to play only "public domain" songs. I still whatever song I wanted, just didn't play the copyrighted melodies. BMI and ASCAP must make billions.............Ray We should be charging them for promoting their material, no?
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,514
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,514 |
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732 |
Hey Herb, Just saw another instance of the BMI police in Tampa, Florida..... Bar Owner Sued Over Music
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,810
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,810 |
I played a couple of gigs last month where I had to play only "public domain" songs. I still played whatever song I wanted, just didn't play the copyrighted melodies. BMI and ASCAP must make billions.............Ray lyrics are copyrighted too, not just the melodies. I'm curious how you got around that with the NPD cover songs.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/24/15 01:19 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492 |
I watched it and saw these two guys don't have blue eyes...
Actually it should be public knowledge by now even in the US that the organizer of a musical event is responsible for licensing. Get informed, public. Not knowing the law doesn't leave you not guilty if there is an infringement.
That should be known especially if you have a venue that has music played for public.
It is not in the responsibility of the musician! I only know of one exception. In the US square dance callers have to buy a license to play their music and the square dancing clubs are off the hook. These ASCAP and BMI licenses are sold with the membership dues of Callerlab and American Callers Association.
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,567
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,567 |
I played a couple of gigs last month where I had to play only "public domain" songs. I still played whatever song I wanted, just didn't play the copyrighted melodies. BMI and ASCAP must make billions.............Ray lyrics are copyrighted too, not just the melodies. I'm curious how you got around that with the NPD cover songs. From Ray's wording I am assuming he is playing instrumentals. Chord progressions are not copyrighted so one can play the chord progression of a well known song and play either an original melody or an original melody with original lyrics. However you can not play a copyrighted hook or instrumental.
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,497
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,497 |
Hi, guys !
This is no easy question !
I have a lot of copyrighted music
myself,but as I am not making
a living out of it, I can afford to
be very generous about how people
would use my music ! In my opinion, though,
it seems that copyright associations
now and then seem to go over the top
as with the suggestion over here that
even taxis would pay licensing fees for
music played to customers during
transports ! I do not see any other
way than that the copyright holders
and the customers must be able to work out
solutions that are fair to everyone -
and that usually means that everyone has
to give in a bit ! If not there is a risk
that copyrighted music will be performed
at private occasions only and that would
probably hurt both sides - what you can
hope for is that both sides are able to
excert what you would call "common sense" !
Cheers
Dani
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492 |
In Germany they do, taxis pay their dues. Compared to the US we are special. We have to pay to GEZ to legally receive public sector broadcasters. AFAIK they don't pay GEMA yet (GEMA is the German equivalent to BMI and other PROs).
If a musician is hired to play in a public accessible venue, two things happen:
1. The business owner has to notify GEMA about the event.
2. The musician has to provide a playlist to the owner.
If this playlist is all license-free music, then nobody has to pay. If this playlist has one tune included that is registered with GEMA or any of her sister origanizations in another country, then the entire event is to be licensed.
There are too many different fees to list. Here is the fee for bars and restaurants and such playing music from sound carriers.
While the fee itself might be substantial in a total perspective, for most venues it is assessable. The fee depends on the size of the venue in square meters. For a bar providing background music without dancing the annual fee is between 185.80 and 541.30 Euros plus VAT. For a small bar that is 50 Euro-Cents a day for a big one it's about € 1.50.
I suspect that it is similar in the US.
Last edited by GHinCH; 05/24/15 06:24 AM.
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987 |
My understanding is - the copyright holder must aggressively defend his rights or risk losing them. That's why we are seeing so many frivolous law suits.
A famous pizza chain was recently sued for singing the Happy Birthday Song to children. I believe it's still under copyright protection (or was at the time).
I truly think the law has exceeded it's intent. It's easier to satisfy "aggressive defense" by suing a "little guy" than to become mired in the courts with the "big guns" for years.
I once sought a patent, the Patent Attorney said that suing for infringement could ruin me financially. I backed away.
Forrest Mims III, inventor of the LED, spent virtually millions of Loonies aggressively defending it, eventually ruining him.
In the Discovery Phase, agents would come in the middle of the night and conduct "legal search and seizure" of his research documents. He eventually won against Monsanto and Bell Labs but he was a broken man. Read his story in his riveting book: "Siliconnections".
"We don't need no steenking Gastappo!"
Addendumb: Purists may argue that the LED (Light Emitting Diode) was more a discovery than an invention.
Forrest Mims III determined that photons of light jumped across a PN junction of a semiconductor diode as it rectified Alternating Current. He proved his theory and the LED was born (invented/discovered).
His knowledge (suspicion) of the existence of the photon phenomenon puts him more in the inventor side in my mind, although a moot point.
Last edited by Don Gaynor; 05/24/15 07:27 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,187
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,187 |
My understanding is - the copyright holder must aggressively defend his rights or risk losing them. That's why we are seeing so many frivolous law suits. That's an issue with trademarks ("Kleenex", "Coke", "Xerox", "Google", "Windows"). If the word falls into common usage as a generic term, the owners can't claim it uniquely identifies their product. A famous pizza chain was recently sued for singing the Happy Birthday Song to children. I believe it's still under copyright protection (or was at the time). I've brought this up before, but the history of "Happy Birthday" is convoluted, and there's a lawsuit wending its way through court right now arguing the song should be in the public domain.
Last edited by dcuny; 05/24/15 06:38 PM. Reason: Grammar fix
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492 |
...the history of "Happy Birthday" is convoluted, and there's a lawsuit wending its way through court right now arguing the song should be in the public domain. It will be in the public domain in Europe by end of 2016 regardless of that lawsuit -- seventy years after the passing of the last surviving author.
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,015
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,015 |
Cocoa Cola works hard to protect their trademark. I encountered a gentleman that worked for Cocoa Cola corporate in Atlanta. His full time job was as a secret shopper. He traveled the US to visit establishments that sold Pepsi Cola products. He would order a Coke then document the server's response. The preferred response is similar to this, "I'm sorry but we serve Pepsi products, will that be okay?" Incorrect responses resulted in a polite "you need to train your help better" letter from the corporate lawyer. In a typical workday he visited thirty to forty places that included everything from Mom & Pop stores, to movie houses, resturants, fast food places and bars.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987 |
I didn't mean to imply that Forrest Mims III is a pauper; far from it. I believe he sold many millions of books on many diverse subjects.
An interesting aside about Forrest...he was commissioned to eavesdrop on the late billionaire Howard Hughes who lived in a well-guarded penthouse atop some skyscraper at the request of a tabloid magazine. He refused but explains how he would accomplish the improbable task in his book Siliconnections.
Any ideas as to how it could be done? Hint: It required absolutely no physical contact with Howard or the building. I'll let you chew and digest the problem until later. (Forrest Mims III is rated as among the smartest men of his time. Some sources say top 5).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,187
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,187 |
Any ideas as to how it could be done? I'm guessing a laser microphone.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987 |
David wins a new Lamborghini immediately upon receipt of 300,000 Loonies Sales Tax.
Forrest Mims III predates current surveillance techniques by decades but suggested training a IR laser beam on a large widow. Any voices within would modulate the laser beam and would be readily demodulated by the listener/receiver. A large glass window provides an excellent "timpanic membrane". The very heart of today's audio "bugging" devices.
Good on ya, David!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
If you're already using RealBand 2026 for Windows, download build 10 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® users: Build 1237 is now available!
Already a Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows user? Stay up to date and download the build 1237 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
PowerTracks Pro 2026 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks 2026 is here—bringing powerful new enhancements designed to make your production workflow faster, smoother, and more intuitive than ever.
The enhanced Mixer now shows Track Type and Instrument icons for instant track recognition, while a new grid option simplifies editing views. Non-floating windows adopt a modern title bar style, replacing the legacy blue bar.
The Master Volume is now applied at the end of the audio chain for consistent levels and full-signal master effects.
Tablature now includes a “Save bends when saving XML” option for improved compatibility with PG Music tools. Plus, you can instantly match all track heights with a simple Ctrl-release after resizing, and Add2 chords from MGU/SGU files are now fully supported... and more!
Get started today—first-time packages start at just $49.
Already using PowerTracks Pro Audio? Upgrade for as little as $29 and enjoy the latest improvements!
Order now!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,086
Posts800,008
Members40,031
| |
Most Online44,367
Mar 4th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean