|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,934
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,934 |
I have become a little hooked on these NPR Tiny desktop concerts that Floyd told us about a couple of days ago. They are a great way to discover new music. I was taken by this video of Sylvan Esso: NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert and wonder how many people would still doubt the musicianship of live DJs after watching this. What are your thoughts?
Last edited by JosieC; 04/13/15 07:18 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,110
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,110 |
I'm more inclined to call him a technician. He's creating something, but he is essentially mixing loops.
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926 |
Josie, I have long said that the term "DJ" has become ambiguous. Many, if not most, associate it with spinning discs of dance music, and a lot of people still do that. No one would argue that this constitutes musicianship.
However, the term has morphed to include people who use programs such as Ableton Live and Propellerhead Reason to generate music on the fly. Frank Zappa borrowed the definition of music as being "organized sound" from a twentieth-century classical composer. I staunchly assert that what *these* DJs produce *is* music, and that they are, by definition, musicians.
I back this up with my signature line, which states that "my primary musical instrument is the personal computer." Of course, I play guitar, bass, and other instruments, but what I produce would not be possible without the use of adjunct programs and the PC itself—used in a musical fashion.
The logical next step in that parade is Mr. Don Gaynor, who cannot play an instrument, yet generates some exceptional tuneage. Does anyone care to argue that he is *not* a musician?
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
If that guy is a musician, I am a potato. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,330
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,330 |
If the term musical instrument in contemporary terms has now been accepted/redefined include a personal computer or a turntable(s)...I guess so. In my irrelevant opinion....no....they are not what I would define as a musician. Live venue mixers, entertainers who are very good at what they do even though I'm not interested in the genre(?). Maybe a derivative composer. Personally speaking only, I do not consider my DAW or any program as a musical instrument. I consider each as tools from which (in my case) I can be a composer of original music/songs. A musician performs said recorded tracks. That's my take on it...
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 04/14/15 09:14 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,934
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,934 |
Keith - I think the most interesting thing is what he is able to do "on the fly". (Even if it is with hours of practice. I am not sure how much "ad libbing" there is here). Most people that are using loops record them live and then mix them in as they play. Which is (in my opinion) a little boring while they are doing it. I don't think that is what he is doing here and this performance is anything but boring.
Hi Ryszard. I agree 100% with what you say (and Donald Gaynor is a good example). Thank you PG Music for giving us all this opportunity to make music (even those of us who play a musical instrument, but play it badly!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,934
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,934 |
If that guy is a musician, I am a potato. ha ha.. bring on the popcorn!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697 |
Well, considering potatoes are buried in the dirt, can't see anything beyond what they're directly on top of. But then consider trees who stand tall and have great vision...
Maybe that's an apt description of yourself, don't know <grin>
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926 |
There are some interesting prejudices being revealed here, of which I am certain those who hold them are completely unaware. Let me begin with an example from outside our community.
The most common reaction I get from musicians to whom I demonstrate BIAB is essentially, "That's cheating!" (This, in one case, from a man who still does step programming in the sequencer of his DAW.) It is similar to the response I have gotten when I mention the songwriting aid MasterWriter here. "That ain't how Gramps did it!"
THEY'RE ALL TOOLS, PEOPLE! But tools change, and the early adopters are often castigated for it. It happened to J. S. Bach, it happened to Stravinsky, and I am sure students of music history can name many others. Nearly everyone here is involved in computer-aided composition and arranging—that's what BIAB, RB, and PTPA are for. So I find it more than passing strange that anyone here would criticize others who do the same thing, but with different tools.
At some point these discussions usually arrive at the definition of music. Okay, here's a fact about me. I listen to ambient, experimental, and New Age stuff that I'm sure some of you would have trouble accepting as being music at all. There is often no discernible beat and no melody. But because I accept Zappa's borrowed definition of music as organized sound I have no problem with that.
Which brings me back to youse guys. Being the otherwise forward-thinking individuals that you are, I am always surprised when there is such vehement resistance to this idea. Just to be clear, when I say "DJ" in this context, I am NOT talking about turntablists (yes, it's a word). I am instead referring to someone who uses electronics, software, and occasionally keyboards (usually to trigger samples) to produce music/organized sound that did not exist before the performance. There is no question that it is music. Musical Improvisation is impromptu composition; ergo, the performer is a composer. And where does music come from? Instruments, right? Which leads to the inescapable (to me) conclusion that whatever was used to compose and perform that music, be it BIAB, Ableton, Reason together with a OC or Mac, is, again by definition, an instrument. Q.E.D.
You can't talk me out of it. I just wish some of you (not all, of course) could relax enough to accept nontraditional musicians and instruments.
Last edited by Ryszard; 04/13/15 05:34 PM.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,251
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,251 |
THEY'RE ALL TOOLS, PEOPLE! I agree completely! DJ's are all TOOLS!  They aren't musicians. They're just taking jobs from musicians because the general public is too ignorant to know the difference and the club owners won't pay a living wage for real musicians. I thought we'd settled this topic several times before.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,251
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,251 |
Here is an example of musicians actually playing music; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxqMRkXD4usTo call DJ’s, (aka glorified button pushers), musicians is an insult to people like those in the video.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,853
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,853 |
dang automobiles...took all the jobs away from the blacksmiths and buggy makers! and the people are too dang ignorant to realize how much better horse and buggy are...oh, and Get Off My Lawn!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,853
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,853 |
Being the otherwise forward-thinking individuals that you are Ha! I ain't buying that! I am always surprised when there is such vehement resistance to this idea. It tickles the crap outta me every time topics like this come up! And I am 100% in agreement with you!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,934
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,934 |
Hi All. Sorry to bring up an old beaten to death topic but I was really interested to hear if anybody "modified" their point of view as a result of watching this particular video (or others like this).
I must say that I found this video found far more engaging than watching some girl crooning out bad songs with a ukulele or a guy sitting endlessly building loops with his guitar (but then again maybe that is just me).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
Well, considering potatoes are buried in the dirt, can't see anything beyond what they're directly on top of. But then consider trees who stand tall and have great vision...
Maybe that's an apt description of yourself, don't know <grin>
Bob What an astute observation, Bob. Once again, you prove the old adage about opinions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492 |
They aren't musicians. They're just taking jobs from musicians because the general public is too ignorant to know the difference and the club owners won't pay a living wage for real musicians.
You'd be surprised about the wages some of those DJs earn. They often get more than a five piece band.
Last edited by GHinCH; 04/14/15 12:55 AM.
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,671
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,671 |
I think she swiped those shoes from Bootsy Collins....
In other news.....
A buddy of mine used to DJ for a time. He made more as a DJ than he did as a band.....
In fact, I too did some primitive DJ stuff in my day..... I mixed acoustic sets with spinning some record cuts....and made more doing that than I did in a band. Less gear too.
Is a DJ a musician....? Some probably are, especially the creative ones....... some, probably are not.
What defines a musician anyway? I think maybe.....The ability to coax sounds from inanimate objects? Wood and steel..... cow hides stretched on a ring of wood.... slats of ivory and ebony with mechanical linkages that strike steel strings...... or plastic buttons connected to silicon chips......
What about typing letters into a grid and selecting a style and pressing "play"? Does that qualify one as a musician?
Getting into slippery ground here...... before calling the kettle something or other......hummmmmm
As was pointed out... these things are simply tools....inanimate objects.... it takes the creative mind of the musician to realize the music that hides within each object or tool.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 04/14/15 01:32 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492 |
I'm more inclined to call him a technician. He's creating something, but he is essentially mixing loops. But, isn't that the same thing most musicians do in a similar way? Why is it that one can recognize the playing of a Les Paul, or a Sonny Rollins, or an Alvin Lee, or the drumming of a Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa? All of those have their licks and chops that they match and mix in different songs or tunes. They just play it note by note. Remember the original guitar solo in Bill Haley's version of Rock Around the Clock played by Danny Cedrone? Do you think this was an original? Well it was an original by Danny Cedrone, but not original when played in Rock Around the Clock in 1954. Here's the original: Rock the Joint from 1951, in the pre-Comets era when the band was still named The Saddlemen, even though the record was published after the name change. Even accomplished musicians rely on "pre-made" sequences. Don't get me wrong. I play myself, but I also rely on prefabricated loops and tracks to enhance my playing's impression for the listener.
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,610
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,610 |
Transport yourself into the deepest rain forest. A guy carries a wooden stick, finds a fallen tree that's hollow and starts banging it with that wooden stick in a repeating pattern. Others hear that and start moving uncontrollably (something we now call dancing).
Is that guy, banging on the hollow tree a musician? Those who are dancing to the 'banging' would think so.
Think about it. Whatever tool you use to make others excited enough to make them move (dance), you have created something we call music.
Just adding my nickel's worth to the discussion.
Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,060
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,060 |
If one is just spinning CDs/records then no a DJ is not a musician. If one is creating new music then yes a DJ is a musician. If a DJ is creating new music using samples, loops etc then he is no different then us using BiaB's MIDI, RTs, RDs, loops and samples IMO. I know a couple of disc spinner DJs who are also keyboard players. They can make more money spinning discs than playing in bands, unfortunately.
At some point these discussions usually arrive at the definition of music. Okay, here's a fact about me. I listen to ambient, experimental, and New Age stuff that I'm sure some of you would have trouble accepting as being music at all. There is often no discernible beat and no melody. But because I accept Zappa's borrowed definition of music as organized sound I have no problem with that.
You are not the only one. I have been listening to the same genre's for years. In fact I have a lot of it on vinyl!
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics85,391
Posts791,577
Members39,875
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean