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This is a crazy topic. There shouldn't be any arguments. A pianist, cellist, trombonist, etc., is a musician. A DJ/Mixologist is a DJ/Mixologist. A singer is a singer. A drummer is a drummer LOL!! I'm with you Ray...
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Sticking to my guns.
Someone who does not play a musical instrument that is capable of playing any piece of written music is not a musician.
That doesn't mean a guitarist that cannot read music is not a musician. He is still playing an instrument that is capable of playing any piece of music in the hands of another musician.
If I write a new melody, any player of guitar, saxophone, piano, violin, accordion etc. who can read music can play it. No DJ in the world can because it hasn't been recorded yet.
That's a major difference to me.
DJs are entertainers, some are extremely skilled, but not musicians.
We have differences in nouns to identify things. When we start calling things by other names to include them into some group, we corrode the language and impair communication.
If we start calling DJs musicians, do we then have to call musicians DJs as well? After all, you are implying the two are interchangeable.
Do you get the right picture in your head when in conversation someone says, "My brother is a musician" when he spins records and plays samples?
And if you ask, "Oh, what instrument does he play?" will a turntable and Ableton "live" button array come into your mind before the answer comes back to you?
There is a difference in terminology because we want to be clear in communication.
I don't say this for some 'superiority' issue (you know they aren't real musicians or anything like that), it's just to define what they are by what they are doing.
Call him a DJ and I see him up there with the tools of his trade in his hands. Call him a musician and I see him with the tools of our trade in his hands. It's about communication to me.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Notes
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Sticking to my guns.
Someone who does not play a musical instrument that is capable of playing any piece of written music is not a musician.
That doesn't mean a guitarist that cannot read music is not a musician. He is still playing an instrument that is capable of playing any piece of music in the hands of another musician.
If I write a new melody, any player of guitar, saxophone, piano, violin, accordion etc. who can read music can play it. No DJ in the world can because it hasn't been recorded yet.
That's a major difference to me.
DJs are entertainers, some are extremely skilled, but not musicians.
We have differences in nouns to identify things. When we start calling things by other names to include them into some group, we corrode the language and impair communication.
If we start calling DJs musicians, do we then have to call musicians DJs as well? After all, you are implying the two are interchangeable.
Do you get the right picture in your head when in conversation someone says, "My brother is a musician" when he spins records and plays samples?
And if you ask, "Oh, what instrument does he play?" will a turntable and Ableton "live" button array come into your mind before the answer comes back to you?
There is a difference in terminology because we want to be clear in communication.
I don't say this for some 'superiority' issue (you know they aren't real musicians or anything like that), it's just to define what they are by what they are doing.
Call him a DJ and I see him up there with the tools of his trade in his hands. Call him a musician and I see him with the tools of our trade in his hands. It's about communication to me.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Notes You don't understand, Bob. After all, you're just someone who “gets up on stage with pre-recorded backing tracks and pretends to be a band!”  Rather odd criticism on a site devoted to creating backing tracks, no?  Regards, Bob
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If I write a new melody, any player of guitar, saxophone, piano, violin, accordion etc. who can read music can play it. No DJ in the world can because it hasn't been recorded yet. I think THIS is where a lot of people miss the mark. DJ CAN play notes! You need to get caught up with what DJ's. There was a time I would have agreed with you. Times have changed my friend. They can duplicate a melody that someone has play OR they can play something they themselves made...an original melody! MUSICIAN
: a person who writes, sings, or plays music
: a composer, conductor, or performer of music; especially : instrumentalist
Last edited by HearToLearn; 04/15/15 03:00 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I'm a lyricist. I can't imagine, for the life of me, someone saying that I didn't write the lyrics I have written because...
1-I didn't use a quill pen and actually "write" them like they did "back in the day."
2-I used a computer which isn't a pen or pencil or carvings on a cave wall!
3-I'm using a font that I, personally, didn't make. Someone else made the font, therefore the words and ideas (via letters in the font on my computer) I'm "assembling" aren't even mine.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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We have differences in nouns to identify things. When we start calling things by other names to include them into some group, we corrode the language and impair communication.
If we start calling DJs musicians, do we then have to call musicians DJs as well? After all, you are implying the two are interchangeable.
I'm not saying not to differentiate. There are general nouns, and more specific nouns. It's not corroding the language to specify this. By your argument we shouldn't call an orange a fruit, because an apple is a fruit, and they are clearly not the same thing? "Fruit" and "Musician" are general terms. "Guitarist", "DJ" are more specific. I will say that "DJ" is a term that isn't AS specific though. It has several meanings. Do you get the right picture in your head when in conversation someone says, "My brother is a musician" when he spins records and plays samples?
And if you ask, "Oh, what instrument does he play?" will a turntable and Ableton "live" button array come into your mind before the answer comes back to you? The fact they had to ask what instrument he plays proves that "musician" is a general term. Because it means different things to different people, the person had to clarify. That actually made my point.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 04/15/15 03:29 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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You don't understand, Bob. After all, you're just someone who “gets up on stage with pre-recorded backing tracks and pretends to be a band!” Rather odd criticism on a site devoted to creating backing tracks, no? Regards, Bob It's called "irony", Bugsey! Look it up!!
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Someone who does not play a musical instrument that is capable of playing any piece of written music is not a musician. Surely what you said here is not what you meant? I can create a piece of "written music" with a range that can only be played on piano and, by this definition, if you play any other instrument with less range than a piano you are not a musician? And, if the DJ's box has knobs, buttons and switches, allowing him to create musical notes, and he plays a melody with the box that can follow (or create) a written music piece, please explain again how he is not a musician!
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You don't understand, Bob. After all, you're just someone who “gets up on stage with pre-recorded backing tracks and pretends to be a band!” Rather odd criticism on a site devoted to creating backing tracks, no? Regards, Bob It's called "irony", Bugsey! Look it up!! I understand irony, Bugs. For example - it's ironic that you show up back here right after getting banned at JPF. Ironic, no?
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You don't understand, Bob. After all, you're just someone who “gets up on stage with pre-recorded backing tracks and pretends to be a band!” Rather odd criticism on a site devoted to creating backing tracks, no? Regards, Bob It's called "irony", Bugsey! Look it up!! I understand irony, Bugs. For example - it's ironic that you show up back here right after getting banned at JPF. Ironic, no? What is hilarious is you still think I am the guy from JPF!
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Even with the backing tracks Bob is still a musician playing his horns. A DJ/Mixologist is all backing tracks. My son is a drummer and DJ. When he plays drums he's a musician, when he spin discs he's a DJ. That's how he refers to himself. There's nothing superior or inferior about being called a musician or a DJ. The two are separate jobs or callings.
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Even with the backing tracks Bob is still a musician playing his horns. A DJ/Mixologist is all backing tracks. My son is a drummer and DJ. When he plays drums he's a musician, when he spin discs he's a DJ. That's how he refers to himself. There's nothing superior or inferior about being called a musician or a DJ. The two are separate jobs or callings. It was a joke, man. I was quoting someone else. Regards, Bob
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To Ray, Bob Norton, and perhaps others: I have commented at least twice in this discussion that the term "DJ" has two meanings, and defined each. Although I cannot be certain, it appears that you have not read those remarks. If not, I respectfully suggest that you page back and do so. This discussion isn't about people who play recordings of any kind.
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My son is a drummer and DJ. When he plays drums he's a musician, when he spin discs he's a DJ. And if we were talking about spinning discs, I would agree. However, there is a set of DJ's who use samples, not just loops, to play melody and harmony parts. BTW, some in this thread would argue that you son is not a musician in either aspect! I disagree.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Even with the backing tracks Bob is still a musician playing his horns. A DJ/Mixologist is all backing tracks. My son is a drummer and DJ. When he plays drums he's a musician, when he spin discs he's a DJ. That's how he refers to himself. There's nothing superior or inferior about being called a musician or a DJ. The two are separate jobs or callings. Ray, the definition of musician being put forth by Notes and others would seem to exclude your son. 
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Now you're saying a drummer is not a musician. There are a lot of old jokes about drummers not being musicians, but they are just jokes. You are just playing semantic games. I DIDN'T say that! I believe a drummer IS a musician!! Notes said, "Someone who does not play a musical instrument that is capable of playing any piece of written music is not a musician."
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 04/15/15 10:16 AM.
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Now you're saying a drummer is not a musician. There are a lot of old jokes about drummers not being musicians, but they are just jokes. You are just playing semantic games. I DIDN'T say that! I believe a drummer IS a musician!! Notes said, "Someone who does not play a musical instrument that is capable of playing any piece of written music is not a musician." Never heard of drum notation, Bugs?
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Now you're saying a drummer is not a musician. There are a lot of old jokes about drummers not being musicians, but they are just jokes. You are just playing semantic games. I DIDN'T say that! I believe a drummer IS a musician!! Notes said, "Someone who does not play a musical instrument that is capable of playing any piece of written music is not a musician." Never heard of drum notation, Bugs? Yeah Bugsey, get back to me when your pre-recorded drummer plays Für Elise!
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What cracks me up about this thread is I'm pretty sure I'm the oldest guy here yet there are some who act so OLD with their heads set in concrete. I told my girls years ago I'm NEVER going to be that guy. Things change guys. Cultural values evolve, language evolves and especially musical values evolve. People do things different ways now. If you could resurrect a high brow Victorian and have them listen to what most of the people in this thread think is good music what do you think that person would say about that? Why, what kind of noise is this?? This is music??? Blasphemy. A Strat is an instrument?? A drum kit?? How about a synthetic electric violin? You kidding me? That would kill them all over again. Someome please 'splain to me how this isn't an instrument: http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/linnstrument.htmlI saw this at the NAMM show and even noodled around with it a bit. Pretty cool and whoever posted the pic of the Push earlier, do you realize you can play individual notes and chords with it just like any regular digital keyboard? Those pads are not just for triggering loops, they can be programmed to do lots of different things. Bob
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What cracks me up about this thread is I'm pretty sure I'm the oldest guy here Are you sure about that? I'm pretty old
do you realize you can play individual notes and chords with it just like any regular digital keyboard? Those pads are not just for triggering loops, they can be programmed to do lots of different things.
Bob
As I can on my Akai drum pads. Apparently I am not a musician if I am playing my drum pads, keyboard MIDI controllers, Guitar MIDI controllers or my wind controller as all of them need a computer to make sounds. I am only a musician if I am playing my guitar. Now before anyone jumps on my @ss I can read music for all of my MIDI controllers as well as my guitar!
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