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Hear to Learn must be a DJ!! LOL
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Hear to Learn must be a DJ!! LOL Ha! Nope. I just love to learn. By learning more about others and how they think, I also find a bit more about how I think  This would probably surprise many of you, but I have complained to my wife MANY times when I see certain DJ's on TV "performing" by basically pushing play, waving their hands in the air, and every so often adjusting the volume knob like the are really doing something.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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HTL. I enjoyed that video. Amazing. I would also hands down call that guy a musician. Times they are a-changing
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Actually, the real question is why they are even called DJs when there are apparently no disks involved. I don't think computer hard disks count, unless you are actually jockeying them around, which of course is bad for the disks.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Exactly, John. The term has morphed in a way that is not obvious unless one has been paying close attention. I had my eyes opened while reading publications such as Future Music, in which detailed looks at these "DJs" gear, software, and creative processes made it clear that they were working at a level far above that of a traditional disk jockey.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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If dictionaries cannot agree, than neither can we.
I still differentiate between the two. I prefer Musicians, DJs, Engineers, etc., I guess I'm just more specific in my mind than others.
And I suppose there is no definitive answer.
So I'm putting the horse to rest and agreeing to disagree.
Notes
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Bob, I posted definitions of the two meanings on page 1 and 2 of this discussion. Have you read them? I can't be certain, but it appears that you have not. I agree that the use of the term is unfortunate in the case of the people I am talking about. However, I have been looking at this genre for years, and my conclusion is that people who meet the second meaning are, in fact, musos.
Respectfully,
Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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If dictionaries cannot agree, than neither can we. I'm feeling as though Ryszard hit the nail on the head. Pat had also posted the definition of musician and music from several sources. Where are you getting the dictionaries cannot agree? I didn't see disagreement from dictionaries. I even took the the time to respond to the definitions with how they applied! I have to wonder if this is your "go to" answer without really investigating it? I still differentiate between the two. I prefer Musicians, DJs, Engineers, etc., I guess I'm just more specific in my mind than others. Musician in a more general term than DJ or Engineer. The equivalent of your statement in a different subject would be like saying... "I still differentiate between the two. I prefer Americans, Blacks, Whites, etc., I guess I'm just more specific in my mind than others." The first term is more general musician/American, the others are more specific. And I suppose there is no definitive answer. I believe there is. We may need a better term for the the present DJ's who are musicians, to differentiate them from the DJ's who are not. So I'm putting the horse to rest and agreeing to disagree. I somewhat get the feeling the you really didn't read the posts that many have made, or watched the examples...and I may be totally wrong on that. For me, I'm fine with people disagreeing with my opinions. My respect is earned when I KNOW they have done their homework. Be able to defend your arguments in a rational way. Otherwise, all you have is an opinion.
Marilyn vos Savant
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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90 db, rather than repeatedly posting gifs of the "beating a dead horse", why don't you just allow the people who are continuing with the conversation to do just that?
I like you, and respect you, but feel you are bordering on rude with what you are doing. I also have read enough of your posts to believe this would not be your intent what-so-ever.
I am simply waiting to see if someone ends up finding a term to describe the people who are currently labeled as DJ's but display musicianship not typically associated with the term "DJ."
If they do, I would like to start using it.
If they don't, maybe we coin one!
So far, I've learned "mixologist" but don't know if that is really the term to use.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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this has been a great conversation...for me it comes down to something quite simple...
if you are making music you are a musician.
the term "DJ" is an old one that used to mean someone who simply spins discs and maybe entertains by adding banter between/during the plays. but that is an outdated definition.
folks like the one in the original video Josie posted are obviously musicians...they are just creating music in a way that is unfamiliar to more classic musicians hence the confusion and obstinence we sometimes see!
this is not new as someone else pointed out earlier. each time something new comes along there is a group who refuse to acknowledge and even choose to denigrate it. but that is just their loss!
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Ok, not THAT was just flat out funny!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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OK, my last post on this topic. All the DJs I've seen including my son are spinning discs and doing some mixing. This seems to be the majority of DJs. They are not musicians. Anyone creating music on any instrument is a musician. There has to be some personal input. This doesn't include those who let a computer compose music for them. I use backing tracks to accompany my playing on solo gigs. Backing tracks are just that, background accompaniment. The focus is on my playing.
Last edited by raymb1; 04/18/15 04:41 PM.
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Josie, I have long said that the term "DJ" has become ambiguous. Many, if not most, associate it with spinning discs of dance music, and a lot of people still do that. No one would argue that this constitutes musicianship.
However, the term has morphed to include people who use programs such as Ableton Live and Propellerhead Reason to generate music on the fly. Frank Zappa borrowed the definition of music as being "organized sound" from a twentieth-century classical composer. I staunchly assert that what *these* DJs produce *is* music, and that they are, by definition, musicians.
I back this up with my signature line, which states that "my primary musical instrument is the personal computer." Of course, I play guitar, bass, and other instruments, but what I produce would not be possible without the use of adjunct programs and the PC itself—used in a musical fashion.
The logical next step in that parade is Mr. Don Gaynor, who cannot play an instrument, yet generates some exceptional tuneage. Does anyone care to argue that he is *not* a musician? Third post in the discussion.
Last edited by Ryszard; 04/18/15 06:41 PM. Reason: Rehash of first principles.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Josie, I have long said that the term "DJ" has become ambiguous. Many, if not most, associate it with spinning discs of dance music, and a lot of people still do that. No one would argue that this constitutes musicianship.
However, the term has morphed to include people who use programs such as Ableton Live and Propellerhead Reason to generate music on the fly. Frank Zappa borrowed the definition of music as being "organized sound" from a twentieth-century classical composer. I staunchly assert that what *these* DJs produce *is* music, and that they are, by definition, musicians.
I back this up with my signature line, which states that "my primary musical instrument is the personal computer." Of course, I play guitar, bass, and other instruments, but what I produce would not be possible without the use of adjunct programs and the PC itself—used in a musical fashion.
The logical next step in that parade is Mr. Don Gaynor, who cannot play an instrument, yet generates some exceptional tuneage. Does anyone care to argue that he is *not* a musician? Third post in the discussion. Hmmm...... Have we reached the point now in this thread where we're not only repeating our positions "ad nauseam", but we're also going to go back and re-post quotes of ourselves from earlier in the thread? Looks like we have. Jeez. It's no wonder that 90dB keeps posting gif's of dead horses being beaten.
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90 db, rather than repeatedly posting gifs of the "beating a dead horse", why don't you just allow the people who are continuing with the conversation to do just that? HTL, (You really ought to stick a name to that.) The conversation isn't being continued. It's just being regurgitated endlessly.
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My last word on the subject:
I know some people who don't think country players are musicians. I know others who think jazz musicians only make noise and are not real musicians. I know a lot of people who think those doing rap are not musicians.
It's all in the eye of the beholder!
My wife had her driving test today.
She got 8 out of 10.
The other 2 jumped out of the way!
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1) The goal of discussion isn't to bring everyone in the room to the same opinion... it is to obtain an awareness that is bigger than personal opinion, one based on the thinking of many minds. There is value in that for anyone who wants it.
2) Good discussion is an art form. In order to obtain it there must be "parliamentary rules" that make it possible for people to express their ideas without being punished.
3) All the rules of discussion revolve around preserving the dignity of everyone in the discussion. If you can accomplish that, you can have conversations on any topic without fighting.
4) Without that agreed upon respect what happens is that people seek to "win" by mocking anyone who disagrees with them. Worst case scenario is when mocking degenerates to personal attacks.
5) In the days of the open forums of discussion the ancients really understood the art of debate. They identified and catalogued most (if not all) of the false arguments and explained why they are false. To this crowd it was generally accepted that the person with the weakest argument would be the first to resort to fallacious reasoning or personal attacks. To them such an approach was automatically interpreted as an implied defeat.
My hat is off To all those who have tried to observe the parliamentary rules of discussion. That speaks well of your open-mindedness and respect for people, as well as your respect for clarity in communication.
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Bob, I posted definitions of the two meanings on page 1 and 2 of this discussion. Have you read them? I can't be certain, but it appears that you have not. <...>
Richard Richard, I read all the definitions, and browsed dictionaries on the Internet as well. It seems that the term musician is open to interpretation. Take this as a worse case example (one I feel that you won't included in your definition of musician). A person buys an old, antique player piano. Puts the piano roll in it, winds it up, and presses the play switch. Technically, that person played the musical instrumet. Does that make he/she a musician? What if he/she doesn't know an A from a Bb, what any of the black and white keys represent, or anything else about music? Or a modern similarity. A person buys a piano with a disk drive, like a clavinova. This person knows nothing about music, but likes the idea of a piano in the house, so he/she buys disks from Yamaha and puts them in the clavinova so it plays nice piano music. Technically that person is playing a musical instrument. Is either of the above a musician? On the other hand Andre Watts can play virtually any piece of music put in front of him on the piano. He is the opposite extreme. Most of us fall somewhere in between. There is a line between the two that separates musicians from non-musicians So where a person starts/stops being a musician is just a matter of where each of us draws the bar. And the bar seems to be different between you and me. Since the various definitions of music seem to be open to interpretation, and some actually seem to conflict a bit with each other, I'm afraid we will simply have to respectfully agree to disagree. I'm not going to convince you that the guy playing pre-recorded loops in Ableton Live is not a musician, and you are not going to convince me he is. And that's OK. Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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