PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Default Instruments for All songs - sampletank

How to call up (or assign) default instruments for ALL songs? Every time I open a song, I have to reassign the sampletank sounds...

Actually, in general, I'm a bit confused with how MIDI channels, and the SampleTank Part numbers are related...

SampleTank 2.5 or 3? In either case doesn’t really matter- the DEFAULT MIDI channel in ST for each part is the same as the part number. However, within ST you can change the channel assigned to a part to be on (respond) to any of the 16 MIDI channels. (Click on the little (microscopic) "ch" number and drag mouse up/down to change) see pics (ST 3 is the same - just a different GUI)


I had another post that summarized how to save song using the VSTi/DXi Default Synth slot to keep settings or using/creating a .tgs file but can't find it now so if you SUFFER through my long winded journey of "self-discovery" you should be able to see how to keep synth settings for instruments

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=280142&Searchpage=1&Main=40013&Words=VSTi&Search=true#Post280142

Hmm...OK I understand more now.
So, I'd actually I think like to configure the Default synth to be ST2.5 free and then assign Parts/Channels in the ST2.5 to MATCH the numbers of the Piano, Drums, Guitar...but I noticed that some songs have different names for the track.

How to always ensure that the tracks "point" to the right sounds in ST?
It's only annoying because everytime I open a song, it's SILENT and I have to do SOMETHING to hear it.

Also, ST2.5 is silent unless I pick something other than NONE for the Forced channel.

Why is this?

So, every time I open a song, I go unto the options for the slots, and put in a ST2.5 into EACH instrument's synth slot, and then go down to that Slot's ST2.5 "instance" and put in an instrument to match the name of the track I'm on and then pick the forced ch to something. This is frustrating.

Let's stay with "Default Synth" slot only for now (more below)

If you put ST in the DEFAULT slot (only) then ALL instruments can be set (are set) in that one instantiation of ST.

Setting the "Forced MIDI Chan" to NONE means ALL BIAB channels will be sent to ST (expect MAYBE the MIDI thru channel - that depends on settings elsewhere in BIAB)

If you set the "Default Synth" slot to anything OTHER than "NONE" like MIDI channel X - then ONLY BIAB data on MIDI channel X will make it to ST. Think of "NONE forced" being like MIDI "OMNI" (at least with respect to BIAB SENDING data to the softsynth in that slot).

Make sense?

As to your question

"How to always ensure that the tracks "point" to the right sounds in ST?"

I'm not sure EXACTLY what you mean BUT

if you go to "Opt. -> Preferences - > Channels" you will get this menu to set channels for each BIAB part. Unless you change them they are ALWAYS set as seen in this pic.

- BIAB BASS part will always be on ch. 2 (even if you PUT a TRUMPET on the BASS part)

- BIAB PIANO will always be on channel 3 (even if you put DRUMS there)
etc.

Up to you to control your instruments beyond the defaults.

When you start putting individual synths in the OTHER slots of the VSTi/DXi Plugins pull down - it is SIMILAR to the Default Synth with respect to MIDI channels. Expect that ONLY ONE BIAB MIDI part/channel is sent to each individual SLOT in the picture, only the "Default Synth" slot gets all BIBA channels (unless you set it to only one of the 16 available) .

In those individual synth slots - you can (probably should) let the defaulted "Forced MIDI channel = NONE" - because BIAB KNOWS that the PIANO will be on ch 3, etc. for bass, drums, guitar, etc. and will send PIANO part data (even if it's drum set) to that pictured SLOT on that CHANNEL (3 in this case)

You can change this channel if you want but then you need to remember it and keep track of it.


Note BIAB was and is, at least with respect to MIDI, more General MIDI (GM) centric than a general DAW so if you were using a GM sound set in ST (like the "Omni Synth 2" add-on), or just using a GM external module like a Ketron SD 2, a Roland Sound Canvas, the GM bank of your external board (if you have one) life would get simpler for you for INITIAL song settings.


Larry

Larry,

I think this is exactly the screen I needed - MIDI channels used for ... bass, piano, etc...like you said.

THANKS!

It's late Sunday and I'm not on the computer that I have BIAB installed, but I will try tomorrow morning!
I have high hopes now!

Thanks for clarifying the Forced = None. That makes sense and seems to be what I need.

- John

I tried to construct patch maps before, but with the older ST 2.2. versions it was crashy with BIAB, and it also takes up quite a bit of time to get it working. Please see my post on Omnisynth 2 for those who are only GM interested .... - F

Well, that seemed to work!!!

So, I see now that the only thing I'm "missing" is that by using ST...it's not GM so songs that have sort of different instruments just will always be using whatever I've assigned in the ST channels...

Sax = soloist = trumpet = soloist = whatever I've picked in ST for ch8. i.e. it wont' change to match the intended instrument (sax, trumpet, flute, etc) as GM would.

But, that's the tradeoff if I like STs sounds more than typical MIDI instrument sounds, right?

suggestion:

DO NOT USE THE DXi of ST 2 - force/use the VSTi - a whole lot less issues.

there is an old thread from a few years ago (somewhere) on this

However, note that the HI-Q BIAB provided ST sounds call up the DXi version of ST. that much seems to work fine (there is a way, I think?, to make even the HI-Q sounds use the VSTi BUT that's for another post)

Larry

This thread may be of interest.

This is very tricky. Biab has midi styles that will change instruments in the middle of a song, like some substyles for example. If you have a certain channel set to one instrument, what happens when Biab changes the patch? Wrong instrument. With the advent of Real Tracks this isn't as a big a problem as it used to be. This is one primary reason why PGM made Biab default to the GM patches. GM is very limited but all GM synths work exactly the same, hence the name "general midi". ST is not a GM synth, Onmisynth is a collection of GM patches but it's just another library of sounds, ST itself is not a GM synth so you have to jump through all these hoops to get it close to what your looking for as far as simple plug and play is concerned.

If someone want's to be able to use the best sounds in their synth arsenal, it's best to use a basic GM synth while in Biab (like the Forte DXi) to get the arrangement the way you want it then you export the whole project to your favorite DAW like Real Band. It's in a DAW that you have much more flexibility in changing synths and patches. Why? Because the instruments are already set, there's no patch changes in the file to mess you up. That means track 5 might have an acoustic guitar strumming but the Forte patch sounds crappy but a ST patch sounds much better. You just plug in ST into that track and find a good acoustic guitar to play the part. Remember, at that point Biab has already created the part, you're just changing synths. IOW, Biab is not the finishing tool, it's what you use to initially put the song together, that's it.

Bob