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So I was messing around with my drumming tonight (I'm new to this whole trigger to recording thing) and just am not that happy with how stiff it sounds. I get this isn't mixed, but I hear the hihat, as an example, and it just sounds soooooo not nice. Is mixing what makes it feel a lot better? It just sounds clanky to me. Sorry I'm not the best at describing it. Here is the audio...again, NOT mixed. Drumming
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Your drum sound source can have a big impact on how the drums sounds. What are you using? Also there is a lot of information on EQing and compressing drums on the Internet, googling/bing is your friend. Here is one very informative one: http://www.audio-production-tips.com/mixing-drums.htmlI hope this helps.
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Is the drumming a looped synth, Real band tracks, acoustic drums or midi synth triggered drums?
I mostly work with real band tracks or at times a sampled synth. On the most recent song I have up with JC, on another more technical forum, a commenter made a comment about the cymbals sounding a bit phasey. Due to the freqs involved with cymbals, getting them to sound full and sonically correct is a job.
If you have real wooden drums and real cymbals, and a decent mic, in a treated drum room, you should be able to get clean drums and cymbals. In most cases..in my experience with samples and synths, it's kinda hard to achieve that clean cymbal sound.
With the real band tracks I use, I tend to massage the drum track with some EQ & compression to bring out the best hiding in there.
In regards to the track you posted, it was kinda hard to hear the details with all the other instruments in the mix.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Thanks for the replies!
I am playing the drums into PTPA via a triggered drum kit.
I am using slate for all of the samples, if that helps.
I just wasn't sure if I handed over the individual track (hh, kick, snare, toms..) if these would be decent for mixing.
I can post a file of the drumming without the music as well shortly.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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"Stiff" would describe/indicate the playing (your playing). I don't think that is the case - the playing is "musical" - particularly in the second half.
The loose hi-hat is not a good sound - it does not sit in the mix well at all - and you are, no doubt, really keying on it because you played it (which we all do). I have to say up front (which I have done in this forum a number of times before) - I am not big on high-hats being "noticeable" - I sometimes eliminate them altogether - which is common in modern Country. Your hi-hat sound is "more than noticeable" and the sample itself seems to have a "stiffness" to it - no ring at all - just a kind of "smash" sound... My guess would be that if you found a hi-hat that fits in the mix better (splishier) that you would feel better about it...
Your tom rolls and snare/kick combination later, sound great.
floyd
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Here are the drums only. I picked a slightly different kit, and messed with one of the fills, levels, and cymb pitch a bit. Drums only track
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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This is more the sound I am hoping to get... This Starts at 1:06  I'm sure you can here there is a shaker in there as well. It is a VERY similar sound to what I like. I feel the shaker and hihat are not that far apart tonally. The samples I have seem to be more "clank" than "shake". Is that a mix/eq kind of thing, or is that the sample itself?
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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"Stiff" would describe/indicate the playing (your playing). I don't think that is the case - the playing is "musical" - particularly in the second half.
The loose hi-hat is not a good sound - it does not sit in the mix well at all - and you are, no doubt, really keying on it because you played it (which we all do). I have to say up front (which I have done in this forum a number of times before) - I am not big on high-hats being "noticeable" - I sometimes eliminate them altogether - which is common in modern Country. Your hi-hat sound is "more than noticeable" and the sample itself seems to have a "stiffness" to it - no ring at all - just a kind of "smash" sound... My guess would be that if you found a hi-hat that fits in the mix better (splishier) that you would feel better about it...
Your tom rolls and snare/kick combination later, sound great.
floyd I am with you on them not being in the mix much. I like EXACTLY the type of sound I posted, and that's about it. I never know the words to describe it, so I am hoping the example helps. My goals is to a get a basic kit that I can use fairly consistently. Thanks for your ears!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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That's what I meant by "splishey" - what you are indicating by the hi-hat and shaker not sounding much different - and what I am saying in terms of "not noticeable" - it's almost a sound you can make by saying "ch-ch-ch-ch"... in contrast, the hi-hat samples you are using (so far) do, in fact, have a "clank" to them... so it is likely finding the right sample to use - one that has that "splish" sound.
In your "Drums only" post, the hi-hat (first half of track) still has a "dominant" (clank) sound to it... it might help to add some reverb to that (it sounds too up front) - but I really think you would be a lot better off (and a lot happier) if you keep looking until you find that perfect sample to get that sound you are hearing in the Luke song.
Last edited by floyd jane; 04/29/15 03:51 AM.
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That's what I meant by "splishey" - what you are indicating by the hi-hat and shaker not sounding much different - and what I am saying in terms of "not noticeable" - it's almost a sound you can make by saying "ch-ch-ch-ch"... in contrast, the hi-hat samples you are using (so far) do, in fact, have a "clank" to them... so it is likely finding the right sample to use - one that has that "splish" sound.
In your "Drums only" post, the hi-hat (first half of track) still has a "dominant" (clank) sound to it... it might help to add some reverb to that (it sounds too up front) - but I really think you would be a lot better off (and a lot happier) if you keep looking until you find that perfect sample to get that sound you are hearing in the Luke song. Agreed on adding verb AND keep looking. I'm sure I can find it! I found in the software where to pull levels back a bit. That is starting to help. Not mixed, but starting on levels Next I will listen to the samples I have and see if there is anything along those lines before spending too much time on the wrong sample to start with! Thanks so much for your help.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I may also mess around with the velocities. What I play and how the computer seems to be interpreting them seems to be two different things.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Looking for samples...
You may or may not be aware of this... but if you play any of the drum tracks that come with BIAB - the .wma files in the folders that have the drum styles (typically, bb/Drums) at the end of each there are individual hits of the kits used.
For example, NashCrossovrSw16^_075_Style.wma has a hi-hat sample at (roughly) 28:30 (bb/Drums/NashCrossovrSw16) that might work for you...
...if you have the patience to find and listen to them all until you find what you need...
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That's starting to sound really good! ...and my basic description of what "happened" would be that you "hid" the hi-hat... so, it should just be a matter of finding that right sample that just kind of goes "shhh..shhh...shhh...shhh"
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That's starting to sound really good! ...and my basic description of what "happened" would be that you "hid" the hi-hat... so, it should just be a matter of finding that right sample that just kind of goes "shhh..shhh...shhh...shhh" Agreed. That "shhh..." sounds is the next key. I thank you much for your help!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Next attempt. Not saying it's better, just different. I added a shaker opposite the HH to see what happens AND cut the attack of the HH a bit too. Another Take Is this boring to everyone else? I thought maybe more would chime in ?
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Different, indeed... it got quite loud... I'm having to adjust settings to get it to where I can listen... when I get the instruments right, the drums seem to be way back (and too low) in the mix... like they suddenly got too much reverb overall.
When I turn it up to hear the drums (the instruments are overpowering then), the shaker - sounds like a shaker - which actually sounds good and can be a valid combination, but I don't think it is exactly what you are looking for. I hope you continue to look/experiment - I am enjoying your journey.
You need to understand that the majority of songwriters are guitar players - so they key on guitar sounds - and drums are (typically) secondary - a new phenomenon to most... and it sometimes take a while before a "guitar guy" understands how important drums are...
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Different, indeed... it got quite loud... I'm having to adjust settings to get it to where I can listen... when I get the instruments right, the drums seem to be way back (and too low) in the mix... like they suddenly got too much reverb overall.
When I turn it up to hear the drums (the instruments are overpowering then), the shaker - sounds like a shaker - which actually sounds good and can be a valid combination, but I don't think it is exactly what you are looking for. I hope you continue to look/experiment - I am enjoying your journey.
You need to understand that the majority of songwriters are guitar players - so they key on guitar sounds - and drums are (typically) secondary - a new phenomenon to most... and it sometimes take a while before a "guitar guy" understands how important drums are...
SO right! This was the original recording, that BIAB had some weird thing happen in the first few seconds. You will hear it. So I opened it in another program to take that out, and it added A LOT of some compressor that was on the outs, with some other effects. I posted it and heard it after the fact. PRE So, overall, do I have to turn the drums up? Being a drummer and having worked in a studio so much, I am always worried they are too up in the mix. I may have gone too far in the wrong direction? And you are correct, it's not where I want to be, but messing with what I have for now.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 04/29/15 03:04 PM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Much better. LOL.. the shaker/hi-hat combination works. it's in the mix far enough that you don't hear it unless you listen for it (which is where I think a hi-hat ought to be for this style music). It is an interesting sounds and does the job.
The rest of the kit now has a "softened edge" to it. The toms have a bit more reverb to them than is "my taste", but that is subjective - I prefer the kit to be a tad "sharper" across the board (a bit more "snap" to the snare - the stick a little "clickier") - again, subjective and depends on the song.
And they are definitely not too loud. They could come up some if you wanted... (again...my taste...)
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I like to hear the drums in the music. So I tend to have them a bit louder and brighter in the mix.
In bands, one of which was a 3 piece band, the drums were a very important part of the sound.... so that has carried over to my studio work. Rock bands tend to have the drums up fairly loud..... this has been standard practice in country for some time now and especially with certain artists.
I don't obsess over the drums but as a guitar guy, I had to find some way to do reasonably believable drum tracks and that came ultimately in the form of BB and RB tracks. Unfortunately, they are all mixed together but by using a decent EQ and multiband FX, it's possible to get them sounding fairly good without a whole lot of work.
What I look for in a track is a good solid sounding drum sound... crisp high end and a full fat low end that thumps you in the chest. And some nice chops in the playing.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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So we have two guitarists and a drummer in this conversation...it already sounds like a joke is coming! The two guitarists are telling the drummer he can turn it up a bit. What?! Where are we? LOL!
Thanks so much for the input! I don't trust my ears yet. It's weird to try to hear things as they actually are, not what you filter them to be!
Last edited by HearToLearn; 04/30/15 03:49 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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