|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296 |
So I was messing around with my drumming tonight (I'm new to this whole trigger to recording thing) and just am not that happy with how stiff it sounds. I get this isn't mixed, but I hear the hihat, as an example, and it just sounds soooooo not nice. Is mixing what makes it feel a lot better? It just sounds clanky to me. Sorry I'm not the best at describing it. Here is the audio...again, NOT mixed. Drumming
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,093
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,093 |
Your drum sound source can have a big impact on how the drums sounds. What are you using? Also there is a lot of information on EQing and compressing drums on the Internet, googling/bing is your friend. Here is one very informative one: http://www.audio-production-tips.com/mixing-drums.htmlI hope this helps.
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,681
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,681 |
Is the drumming a looped synth, Real band tracks, acoustic drums or midi synth triggered drums?
I mostly work with real band tracks or at times a sampled synth. On the most recent song I have up with JC, on another more technical forum, a commenter made a comment about the cymbals sounding a bit phasey. Due to the freqs involved with cymbals, getting them to sound full and sonically correct is a job.
If you have real wooden drums and real cymbals, and a decent mic, in a treated drum room, you should be able to get clean drums and cymbals. In most cases..in my experience with samples and synths, it's kinda hard to achieve that clean cymbal sound.
With the real band tracks I use, I tend to massage the drum track with some EQ & compression to bring out the best hiding in there.
In regards to the track you posted, it was kinda hard to hear the details with all the other instruments in the mix.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296 |
Thanks for the replies!
I am playing the drums into PTPA via a triggered drum kit.
I am using slate for all of the samples, if that helps.
I just wasn't sure if I handed over the individual track (hh, kick, snare, toms..) if these would be decent for mixing.
I can post a file of the drumming without the music as well shortly.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,733
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,733 |
"Stiff" would describe/indicate the playing (your playing). I don't think that is the case - the playing is "musical" - particularly in the second half.
The loose hi-hat is not a good sound - it does not sit in the mix well at all - and you are, no doubt, really keying on it because you played it (which we all do). I have to say up front (which I have done in this forum a number of times before) - I am not big on high-hats being "noticeable" - I sometimes eliminate them altogether - which is common in modern Country. Your hi-hat sound is "more than noticeable" and the sample itself seems to have a "stiffness" to it - no ring at all - just a kind of "smash" sound... My guess would be that if you found a hi-hat that fits in the mix better (splishier) that you would feel better about it...
Your tom rolls and snare/kick combination later, sound great.
floyd
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296 |
Here are the drums only. I picked a slightly different kit, and messed with one of the fills, levels, and cymb pitch a bit. Drums only track
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296 |
This is more the sound I am hoping to get... This Starts at 1:06  I'm sure you can here there is a shaker in there as well. It is a VERY similar sound to what I like. I feel the shaker and hihat are not that far apart tonally. The samples I have seem to be more "clank" than "shake". Is that a mix/eq kind of thing, or is that the sample itself?
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296 |
"Stiff" would describe/indicate the playing (your playing). I don't think that is the case - the playing is "musical" - particularly in the second half.
The loose hi-hat is not a good sound - it does not sit in the mix well at all - and you are, no doubt, really keying on it because you played it (which we all do). I have to say up front (which I have done in this forum a number of times before) - I am not big on high-hats being "noticeable" - I sometimes eliminate them altogether - which is common in modern Country. Your hi-hat sound is "more than noticeable" and the sample itself seems to have a "stiffness" to it - no ring at all - just a kind of "smash" sound... My guess would be that if you found a hi-hat that fits in the mix better (splishier) that you would feel better about it...
Your tom rolls and snare/kick combination later, sound great.
floyd I am with you on them not being in the mix much. I like EXACTLY the type of sound I posted, and that's about it. I never know the words to describe it, so I am hoping the example helps. My goals is to a get a basic kit that I can use fairly consistently. Thanks for your ears!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,733
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,733 |
That's what I meant by "splishey" - what you are indicating by the hi-hat and shaker not sounding much different - and what I am saying in terms of "not noticeable" - it's almost a sound you can make by saying "ch-ch-ch-ch"... in contrast, the hi-hat samples you are using (so far) do, in fact, have a "clank" to them... so it is likely finding the right sample to use - one that has that "splish" sound.
In your "Drums only" post, the hi-hat (first half of track) still has a "dominant" (clank) sound to it... it might help to add some reverb to that (it sounds too up front) - but I really think you would be a lot better off (and a lot happier) if you keep looking until you find that perfect sample to get that sound you are hearing in the Luke song.
Last edited by floyd jane; 04/29/15 02:51 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296 |
That's what I meant by "splishey" - what you are indicating by the hi-hat and shaker not sounding much different - and what I am saying in terms of "not noticeable" - it's almost a sound you can make by saying "ch-ch-ch-ch"... in contrast, the hi-hat samples you are using (so far) do, in fact, have a "clank" to them... so it is likely finding the right sample to use - one that has that "splish" sound.
In your "Drums only" post, the hi-hat (first half of track) still has a "dominant" (clank) sound to it... it might help to add some reverb to that (it sounds too up front) - but I really think you would be a lot better off (and a lot happier) if you keep looking until you find that perfect sample to get that sound you are hearing in the Luke song. Agreed on adding verb AND keep looking. I'm sure I can find it! I found in the software where to pull levels back a bit. That is starting to help. Not mixed, but starting on levels Next I will listen to the samples I have and see if there is anything along those lines before spending too much time on the wrong sample to start with! Thanks so much for your help.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296 |
I may also mess around with the velocities. What I play and how the computer seems to be interpreting them seems to be two different things.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,733
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,733 |
Looking for samples...
You may or may not be aware of this... but if you play any of the drum tracks that come with BIAB - the .wma files in the folders that have the drum styles (typically, bb/Drums) at the end of each there are individual hits of the kits used.
For example, NashCrossovrSw16^_075_Style.wma has a hi-hat sample at (roughly) 28:30 (bb/Drums/NashCrossovrSw16) that might work for you...
...if you have the patience to find and listen to them all until you find what you need...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,733
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,733 |
That's starting to sound really good! ...and my basic description of what "happened" would be that you "hid" the hi-hat... so, it should just be a matter of finding that right sample that just kind of goes "shhh..shhh...shhh...shhh"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296 |
That's starting to sound really good! ...and my basic description of what "happened" would be that you "hid" the hi-hat... so, it should just be a matter of finding that right sample that just kind of goes "shhh..shhh...shhh...shhh" Agreed. That "shhh..." sounds is the next key. I thank you much for your help!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296 |
Next attempt. Not saying it's better, just different. I added a shaker opposite the HH to see what happens AND cut the attack of the HH a bit too. Another Take Is this boring to everyone else? I thought maybe more would chime in ?
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,733
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,733 |
Different, indeed... it got quite loud... I'm having to adjust settings to get it to where I can listen... when I get the instruments right, the drums seem to be way back (and too low) in the mix... like they suddenly got too much reverb overall.
When I turn it up to hear the drums (the instruments are overpowering then), the shaker - sounds like a shaker - which actually sounds good and can be a valid combination, but I don't think it is exactly what you are looking for. I hope you continue to look/experiment - I am enjoying your journey.
You need to understand that the majority of songwriters are guitar players - so they key on guitar sounds - and drums are (typically) secondary - a new phenomenon to most... and it sometimes take a while before a "guitar guy" understands how important drums are...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296 |
Different, indeed... it got quite loud... I'm having to adjust settings to get it to where I can listen... when I get the instruments right, the drums seem to be way back (and too low) in the mix... like they suddenly got too much reverb overall.
When I turn it up to hear the drums (the instruments are overpowering then), the shaker - sounds like a shaker - which actually sounds good and can be a valid combination, but I don't think it is exactly what you are looking for. I hope you continue to look/experiment - I am enjoying your journey.
You need to understand that the majority of songwriters are guitar players - so they key on guitar sounds - and drums are (typically) secondary - a new phenomenon to most... and it sometimes take a while before a "guitar guy" understands how important drums are...
SO right! This was the original recording, that BIAB had some weird thing happen in the first few seconds. You will hear it. So I opened it in another program to take that out, and it added A LOT of some compressor that was on the outs, with some other effects. I posted it and heard it after the fact. PRE So, overall, do I have to turn the drums up? Being a drummer and having worked in a studio so much, I am always worried they are too up in the mix. I may have gone too far in the wrong direction? And you are correct, it's not where I want to be, but messing with what I have for now.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 04/29/15 02:04 PM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,733
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,733 |
Much better. LOL.. the shaker/hi-hat combination works. it's in the mix far enough that you don't hear it unless you listen for it (which is where I think a hi-hat ought to be for this style music). It is an interesting sounds and does the job.
The rest of the kit now has a "softened edge" to it. The toms have a bit more reverb to them than is "my taste", but that is subjective - I prefer the kit to be a tad "sharper" across the board (a bit more "snap" to the snare - the stick a little "clickier") - again, subjective and depends on the song.
And they are definitely not too loud. They could come up some if you wanted... (again...my taste...)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,681
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,681 |
I like to hear the drums in the music. So I tend to have them a bit louder and brighter in the mix.
In bands, one of which was a 3 piece band, the drums were a very important part of the sound.... so that has carried over to my studio work. Rock bands tend to have the drums up fairly loud..... this has been standard practice in country for some time now and especially with certain artists.
I don't obsess over the drums but as a guitar guy, I had to find some way to do reasonably believable drum tracks and that came ultimately in the form of BB and RB tracks. Unfortunately, they are all mixed together but by using a decent EQ and multiband FX, it's possible to get them sounding fairly good without a whole lot of work.
What I look for in a track is a good solid sounding drum sound... crisp high end and a full fat low end that thumps you in the chest. And some nice chops in the playing.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296 |
So we have two guitarists and a drummer in this conversation...it already sounds like a joke is coming! The two guitarists are telling the drummer he can turn it up a bit. What?! Where are we? LOL!
Thanks so much for the input! I don't trust my ears yet. It's weird to try to hear things as they actually are, not what you filter them to be!
Last edited by HearToLearn; 04/30/15 02:49 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics85,460
Posts792,252
Members39,888
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean